Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by thagame, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. thagame

    thagame New Member

    we are going live on telematics in the middle of this month. this is like ups best way to for sure fire an employee.. has anyone went live on this yet, if so tell me about it thanks . thagame

    HEFFERNAN Huge Member

    My truck broke down 3 times since they went live. Don't believe its to see how good your truck is feeling ! It was for employee harassment and after 3 years on it, I'll go to the grave knowing it.
  3. grgrcr88

    grgrcr88 No It's not green grocer!

    Telematics is not allowed to be used for discipline. It is far to unreliable. They will review your prior days events based on telematics but that is as far as it will go. Do not allow them to intimidate or harass you based on the telematics information. The Union does not recognize it for discipline same as we don't recognize over allowed. We have had it for a couple years now and no one has ever been disciplined from it.
  4. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    It is little more than an annoyance. For a while your management team will bitch and whine about how many times you backed up or how much idle time you have or why you spent 3.27 minutes at a stop that was only "allowed" 1.9 minutes. If your bulkhead door doesnt latch and the truck moves 22 feet before you reach over and slam it shut, a report will get printed out the next day with a Google Earth map showing where it occured. These reports will be scattered all around the center like confetti. And every week or so there will be some new metric that they will want you to change.

    We have been on it for 2 years now. No one has been fired solely on the basis of Telematics. The bottom line is that if you are doing your job correctly you wont have anything to worry about.
  5. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

  6. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    I've been on telematics for two years and I love it. It makes me look like an ALLSTAR.
  7. Dragon

    Dragon Package Center Manager

    Alright don't get carried away...
  8. Dragon

    Dragon Package Center Manager

    The bottom line is that if you are doing your job correctly you wont have anything to worry about.

    You might want to follow this advice - from another teamster:

    Always perform your assigned work as though someone is watching, because,
    someone is watching. No, you are not paranoid, someone really is watching!
  9. Kylew

    Kylew New Member

    There was a guy from another center in our building that got fired for to many backing events!Not sure if there is more to the story,driver history...etc...I hope he gets his job back!
  10. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    I can gurantee you there is "more to the story" one is going to get fired simply for having too many backing events on a Telematics report. Perhaps you are confusing "events" with "accidents".

    When we went live on Telematics I was getting nagged every day to reduce my backing events. There was a number, and they wanted me to reduce that number. I asked them to come ride with me and show me where I was backing uneccesarily, but that involved actual work and they werent interested in any of that..they just wanted to manipulate a metric and look good on a report. And then one day the flavor of the week changed and they were no longer printing out reports of backing events and they found a different metric to complain about.

    There will always be reports. There will always be a metric on those reports for someone in management to complain about. And any action I take to get off of that report will simply cause me to show up on a different report. Once I learned to accept that fact, I was able to detach myself from any concern about it. Life is a lot simpler when you can master the art of letting go.
  11. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    This is exactly the WRONG advice to take with respect to telematics. There are people terminated all over the country exclusively from telematics information.

    What was posted here is INCORRECT. "The Union does not recognize it for discipline"

    This is probably the dumbest statement made on this board in a while.

    Article 6 of the national master agreement ratified in 2008 states:
    "no employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon information recieved from gps or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty (defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she intends to defraud the company).

    An employee can simply close a next day air package on a different street if they cant make it by 1030 and then deliver it at 1033 and the company can use telematics to discharge the employee under article 6 language.

    The Union opened this door in 2008 with this agreement. The caveat is defined between the parenthesis. Defrauding the company is a loose term that can be used in thousands of ways.

    This has led to the terminations of many drivers in the UPS system through telematics.

    All drivers should take this advice seriously.

    DO NOT ATTEMPT to do business as usual. You must do the job correctly or the company WILL use this technology against you.

    We were the first to go online with telematics in the country. So far, we have lost about 2 guys a month to telematic provided information.

    At first, the company maintains that its use is for safety only, however, after a few shorts months, they make the transition to a full disciplinary tool.

  12. brownelf

    brownelf Active Member

    +1 on that. Got a discharge hearing monday am for driver shown doing things wrong on telematics. Tell my guys that someone is always in the jump seat, you just don't see him...
  13. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    Those of us in the Western Region are protected by the superior language in Article 28 section 2 of the Western Region Supplement;

    "No Employee(s) shall suffer suspension or discharge without the employee(s) having been given a written warning notice.......

    (a) in cases of(1) proven dishonesty; (2) drinking of alcoholic beverages while on duty; (3) recklessnes resulting in a serious accident while on duty (4) the carrying of unauthorized passengers; (5) unprovoked assault on an employee or supervisory employee while on duty; (6) selling, transporting or use of illegal narcotics while in the employement of the Employer; or (7) willful, wanton or malicious damage to the Employers property, shall be dischargeable offenses without the necessity of a warning letter being in effect."

    Telematics data by itself is not proof. We had a guy get fired recently for sheeting NDA prior to the commit time and then delivering it later. He didnt get fired because of what the Telematics data showed...he got fired because, when first questioned about it, he lied. Then, when confronted with the Telematics data, he changed his story and admitted the truth. Since there were no actual witnesses to what occured, all he would have had to do was to plead ignorance by saying "I dont recall" and they would not have been able to fire him.

    What the company can use Telematics for is to figure out who is cutting corners and cheating. At that point, management can then go out and do observations of the employee and personally witness the dishonest behavior in order to build a case for discipline. But, by itself, Telematics data cannot be used for disciplinary purposes out here in the Western Region.
  14. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll


    You are partially correct. Indeed, in the West we have a 7 cardinal infraction rule, however, the caveat to that rule is simple.

    Proven dishonesty is an automatic termination and does NOT have to be precluded by a warning letter. This in conjunction with article 6 language is a death blow to any driver cheating the system.

    Whether or not a driver is returned has nothing to do with the language and all to do with the negotiations between the union and the company.

    A cardinal infraction need not be precluded by any other discipline for a similiar action.

    The clause you stated: "No Employee(s) shall suffer suspension or discharge without the employee(s) having been given a written warning notice......." only applies to infractions that are not on the cardinal list.

    If you carefully read article 6 with respect for the section I quoted, it states that an employee CANNOT be terminated on a FIRST OFFENSE from information obtained through GPS or Any other system (telematics).

    What does this mean?

    It means that the company cannot fire you the first time you are caught doing something or anything on telematics that doesnt comply with some company standard. However, the second, third fourth and so on, its fair game.

    The window for this discipline is huge and no rider, supplement or MOU can protect a driver in the west.

    Proven dishonesty in arbitration will be a cake walk for the company using the telematics data.

    Dont believe that the language in the West will help you.

    Guilty drivers always get brought back the first time, but the second one will stick.

  15. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Always act as dumb as they think you are!!
  16. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    I quote Article 2, Section 2 of the Master Agreement;

    ".....nothing in this Master Agreement shall deprive any employee of any superior benefit contained in their Supplement, Rider or Addendum."


    Telematics data by itself, with no other other evidence, is not proof of dishonesty...whether it be the first or second or fifth offense. At least not in the Western Region.

    I point this out because there are a lot of people who are afraid that they will get hauled into the office and fired due to an inaccurate Telematics report. And it simply is not the case, at least in the West.

    The cheaters and liars are still getting they should be...but the terminations are based upon direct observations or the conflicting/dishonest statements they make when questioned about the Telematics data, not the data itself.

    It may sound like I am splitting hairs, but the distinction is an important one. It protects us from being fired based solely on ambiguous or faulty Telematics data, regardless of whether or not it is for a first offense.

    The bottom line is this; do your job the correct way and you have nothing to fear from Telematics.
  17. brownelf

    brownelf Active Member

    that's exactly how it's done here, telematics sends the red flag up the pole. Then they dig thru the delivery records for proof of falsified records, after that it's dishonesty and they're discharged. Most come back after the week or so they wait for local hearing as long as nothing else is found. So far the loss of a week or more in wages has been enough for our labor dept to give the driver his job back. But I'm confident this will not last forever, telematics can and will be used for discipline regardless of what the contract says. Just do the job right as others have said and you'll be fine. Scan and attempt del on every pkg every day, otherwise scan and sheet as missed.
  18. grgrcr88

    grgrcr88 No It's not green grocer!

    It may be wrong somewhere I guess, If your local has allowed a termination based on telematics you have some serious problems. I can prove over 100 problems with telematics on a weekly basis and as such can have any discipline thrown out based on that. No one in my area of the country has ever been disciplined based on telematics. The only thing stupid here is that some local has allowed it to happen.
  19. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    If you read his post throroughly, you will see he uses the words "telematic provided information" as the reason for the terminations and that the terminations were not based solely on this information but rather were the result of an investigation based upon this information.
  20. grgrcr88

    grgrcr88 No It's not green grocer!

    I read in his post that he thinks what I said was the stupidest thing posted on this board . He obviously does not read well!!