Telematics

[Over12upsblows]

I am concerned that ups can alter Telematics reports to get rid of drivers they do not like. What is a drivers best course of action in this situation? HR? Attorney general? Guys in my bldg are dropping like flies, 20 25 year guys. Seems like this is a war we will never win and we are all gonna be replaced.

 

[UPSGUY72]

I am concerned that ups can alter Telematics reports to get rid of drivers they do not like. What is a drivers best course of action in this situation? HR? Attorney general? Guys in my bldg are dropping like flies, 20 25 year guys. Seems like this is a war we will never win and we are all gonna be replaced.

They can't alter the reports don't worry if they could they would and they wouldn't be making things look worse they be making them look better.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I am concerned that ups can alter Telematics reports to get rid of drivers they do not like. What is a drivers best course of action in this situation? HR? Attorney general? Guys in my bldg are dropping like flies, 20 25 year guys. Seems like this is a war we will never win and we are all gonna be replaced.

Technology, which includes Telematics, cannot be used solely for discipline, except in cases of dishonesty. This will undoubtedly change with the next contract.

 

[cino321]

It's getting ugly out there. Do your jobs honestly and go home.

 

[Over12upsblows]

One mistake and your friend'd with telematics. Union can't do ****. People are doing their jobs honestly and still getting weeks off for nonsense. Worst company to work for in America. I used to like coming to work and then the union took 6 billion dollars from UPS and the deal with devil was made. No going back either.

 

[cascadehops]

what did the 20 25 yr drivers do to get terminated?? our telematics often shows information. For example, 120 bulkhead door incidents on a route with 170 stops. I know the driver and he's not driving around with his bulkhead door open. the sup just said to write it up on the dvir.

 

[The Other Side]

Technology, which includes Telematics, cannot be used solely for discipline, except in cases of dishonesty. This will undoubtedly change with the next contract.

Dont count on this changing Dave. Its not going to be on the table. In fact, UPS has presented an expansion of article 6 language that you are going to hate worse than its presently written. Telematics and GPS CAN BE USED SOLELY for discipline. All the company has to do is prove that the employee intended to defraud the company and BOOM your history.

We just lost a driver for falsely sheeting pkgs as no such business that were off area pkgs. Telematics showed him sheeting these pkgs down the block from the hub instead of out on area 20 miles away. The pkgs that he had belonged to the driver directly across the street from his route. He made no attempts, didnt call them into center, didnt record them as off area and drove into the hub stopping just outside the gate to record them falsely.

HES DEAD MEAT.

Peace

TOS

 

[dilligaf]

Dont count on this changing Dave. Its not going to be on the table. In fact, UPS has presented an expansion of article 6 language that you are going to hate worse than its presently written. Telematics and GPS CAN BE USED SOLELY for discipline. All the company has to do is prove that the employee intended to defraud the company and BOOM your history.

We just lost a driver for falsely sheeting pkgs as no such business that were off area pkgs. Telematics showed him sheeting these pkgs down the block from the hub instead of out on area 20 miles away. The pkgs that he had belonged to the driver directly across the street from his route. He made no attempts, didnt call them into center, didnt record them as off area and drove into the hub stopping just outside the gate to record them falsely.

HES DEAD MEAT.

Peace

TOS

​The drivers first mistake was sheeting the pkgs NS anything. His second mistake was doing it just down the street from the building. That has nothing to do with using telematics to wrongly fire drivers.

 

[packageguy]

A supervisor tell me a story last week , a driver in new jersey doing 60 miles an hour on the turnpike sheeted a package not in 1. You can't make this stuff up. How do you defend that...........

 

[The Other Side]

​The drivers first mistake was sheeting the pkgs NS anything. His second mistake was doing it just down the street from the building. That has nothing to do with using telematics to wrongly fire drivers.

YOU missed the point. His actions were discovered by a simple telematics review of the day. Once they spotted that he stopped outside the gate, they then checked his records and found the pkgs. They checked the recordings of these pkgs and discovered they did not belong to him and all were addressed properly with the proper PAS label for the intended driver. The pkgs were MISLOADED in his truck for the day, and he failed to notify the center that he had them.

Under Article 6 of the NMA, he was removed from service for defrauding the company solely based on TELEMATICS, SPARKS and DELIVERY RECORDS. All electronic sources. Was he wrongly fired? Well, no. Did he have a history of similiar actions? YES.

This is a classic example of what NOT to do with pkgs that dont belong to you on route.

Peace

TOS

 

[cino321]

This is a classic example of what NOT to do with pkgs that dont belong to you on route.

Peace

TOS

Look guys if you're in a bind and you have mis-loads and you screwed up and forgot to tell the center, or if you found them too late, or if you just plain want to go home and don't feel like delivering them even if they instructed you to, just sheet them missed.

You'll get disciplined for failure to follow, but you won't get fired for lying.

Don't do it often, but we all know stuff happens and we forget.

 

[804brown]

YOU missed the point. His actions were discovered by a simple telematics review of the day. Once they spotted that he stopped outside the gate, they then checked his records and found the pkgs. They checked the recordings of these pkgs and discovered they did not belong to him and all were addressed properly with the proper PAS label for the intended driver. The pkgs were MISLOADED in his truck for the day, and he failed to notify the center that he had them.

Under Article 6 of the NMA, he was removed from service for defrauding the company solely based on TELEMATICS, SPARKS and DELIVERY RECORDS. All electronic sources. Was he wrongly fired? Well, no. Did he have a history of similiar actions? YES.

This is a classic example of what NOT to do with pkgs that dont belong to you on route.

Peace

TOS

Im still bothered by this whole "defrauding" language. Technically the driver is defrauding the customer because that customer did not get their package that day. Yes the driver falsely sheeted those packages but what was the intent here. We all know that telematics tells them everything. So the driver is guilty of being lazy, but did the driver cause any monetary loss to UPS? Not really. I mean where does this end. What if a driver is asked by diad message how many stops he has left at 6pm. The driver says 20 but he really has 10. If it could be proven (by telematics, etc) that he "lied" about how many he had left, can he be fired for dishonesty too?? Or if he is asked what the weather is and he falsely messages back that it is raining, when it actually is sunny. Is that grounds for firing for dishonesty?? I understand if this has occurred before and he has been progressively disciplined, ok, but not immediate discharge.

 

[dilligaf]

YOU missed the point. His actions were discovered by a simple telematics review of the day. Once they spotted that he stopped outside the gate, they then checked his records and found the pkgs. They checked the recordings of these pkgs and discovered they did not belong to him and all were addressed properly with the proper PAS label for the intended driver. The pkgs were MISLOADED in his truck for the day, and he failed to notify the center that he had them.

Under Article 6 of the NMA, he was removed from service for defrauding the company solely based on TELEMATICS, SPARKS and DELIVERY RECORDS. All electronic sources. Was he wrongly fired? Well, no. Did he have a history of similiar actions? YES.

This is a classic example of what NOT to do with pkgs that dont belong to you on route.

Peace

TOS

NO! You missed the point. If the driver had done his job like he was supposed to there wouldn't have been a problem. Don't dump this all on telematics. He was removed because he was STUPID and did not follow methods. If telematics hadn't been in place and he hadn't got caught he still would have been WRONG!

 

[toonertoo]

I had the minue by minute report thrown in my face upside down this am. I said if you are going to ask me why it took so long let me defend myself. Ok 8 pkgs, why did it take 6 minutes.............look at the manifest, they were 8 50 pd pkgs, I had to dolly them uphill driveway, 2 trips, Ok here is 3 pkgs took you 8 minutes, yeah and the kid couldnt decide if b.... m..... lived there and it needed a sig. Since I took them to the door and it couldnt open I had to dolly them out back. These things take time. Pushing a dolly over trash, beer cans and wine bottles. Firt he didnt know who she was, and suddenly he remembered she lived there. HMMM some good stff in those boxes I bet..................

 

[soberups]

Dont count on this changing Dave. Its not going to be on the table. In fact, UPS has presented an expansion of article 6 language that you are going to hate worse than its presently written. Telematics and GPS CAN BE USED SOLELY for discipline. All the company has to do is prove that the employee intended to defraud the company and BOOM your history.

We just lost a driver for falsely sheeting pkgs as no such business that were off area pkgs. Telematics showed him sheeting these pkgs down the block from the hub instead of out on area 20 miles away. The pkgs that he had belonged to the driver directly across the street from his route. He made no attempts, didnt call them into center, didnt record them as off area and drove into the hub stopping just outside the gate to record them falsely.

HES DEAD MEAT.

Peace

TOS

He SHOULD BE dead meat. He blatantly and intentionally falsified delivery records, defrauded the company, and screwed over the customers. I have no problem whatsoever with Telematics information being used to fire a driver who is doing crap like that.

 

[soberups]

I had the minue by minute report thrown in my face upside down this am. I said if you are going to ask me why it took so long let me defend myself. Ok 8 pkgs, why did it take 6 minutes.............look at the manifest, they were 8 50 pd pkgs, I had to dolly them uphill driveway, 2 trips, Ok here is 3 pkgs took you 8 minutes, yeah and the kid couldnt decide if b.... m..... lived there and it needed a sig. Since I took them to the door and it couldnt open I had to dolly them out back. These things take time. Pushing a dolly over trash, beer cans and wine bottles. Firt he didnt know who she was, and suddenly he remembered she lived there. HMMM some good stff in those boxes I bet..................

I dont think there is anything wrong with them asking a few questions in a respectful manner....but when it crosses the line and becomes badgering, harassment, or a thinly disguised accusation of stealing time then there is no longer any reason for the driver to waste time participating in a pointless discussion. At that point, he/she is better off just answering each question by saying "I dont recall." Most of the time they dont even care what the answers are, they dont want to hear the truth about the poor load quality or the flawed trace or the bogus time allowance, the only thing they care about is that you knuckle under and skip your lunch and breaks so that they will look better on some report.

 

[soberups]

Im still bothered by this whole "defrauding" language. Technically the driver is defrauding the customer because that customer did not get their package that day. Yes the driver falsely sheeted those packages but what was the intent here. We all know that telematics tells them everything. So the driver is guilty of being lazy, but did the driver cause any monetary loss to UPS? Not really. I mean where does this end. What if a driver is asked by diad message how many stops he has left at 6pm. The driver says 20 but he really has 10. If it could be proven (by telematics, etc) that he "lied" about how many he had left, can he be fired for dishonesty too?? Or if he is asked what the weather is and he falsely messages back that it is raining, when it actually is sunny. Is that grounds for firing for dishonesty?? I understand if this has occurred before and he has been progressively disciplined, ok, but not immediate discharge.

The key word is not "defraud" the key word here is "intend". What was the drivers intention? In this case, with multiple pkgs for good addresses that were all misloads, plus the fact that they were all scanned at the same time and place (right outside the gate) it is quite clear that the drivers intention was to get out of having to make the necessary delivery attempts on them so that he could go home early. He was defrauding the company and the customers by deliberately falsifying a delivery record. It was not a mistake, it was not a misunderstanding and it was not a data-entry error. I would also be willing to bet that what really got this driver fired was that he lied when questioned about the incident.

 

[Dragon]

Look guys if you're in a bind and you have mis-loads and you screwed up and forgot to tell the center, or if you found them too late, or if you just plain want to go home and don't feel like delivering them even if they instructed you to, just sheet them missed.

You'll get disciplined for failure to follow, but you won't get fired for lying.

Don't do it often, but we all know stuff happens and we forget.

try that in my center and going home is the least of your worries...its a lot more then failure to follow..not good advice.

 

[804brown]

I dont think there is anything wrong with them asking a few questions in a respectful manner....but when it crosses the line and becomes badgering, harassment, or a thinly disguised accusation of stealing time then there is no longer any reason for the driver to waste time participating in a pointless discussion. At that point, he/she is better off just answering each question by saying "I dont recall." Most of the time they dont even care what the answers are, they dont want to hear the truth about the poor load quality or the flawed trace or the bogus time allowance, the only thing they care about is that you knuckle under and skip your lunch and breaks so that they will look better on some report.

If they ask what happened at this particular stop and you have nothing to hide, then you tell them I was working, delivering my packages. Why did it take 6 minutes?? Because i couldnt do it in 5 minutes!! Its just like "why did you have late air?" Because I was given too much air. Keep it simple and truthful.

 

[804brown]

The key word is not "defraud" the key word here is "intend". What was the drivers intention? In this case, with multiple pkgs for good addresses that were all misloads, plus the fact that they were all scanned at the same time and place (right outside the gate) it is quite clear that the drivers intention was to get out of having to make the necessary delivery attempts on them so that he could go home early. He was defrauding the company and the customers by deliberately falsifying a delivery record. It was not a mistake, it was not a misunderstanding and it was not a data-entry error. I would also be willing to bet that what really got this driver fired was that he lied when questioned about the incident.

Yes "intent" is key but was the "intent" to defraud the company out of money?? No, it seems out of laziness or a willingness to get home early which means ups not paying him OT. SO the intent does not have a monetary reasoning. Again I think the intent was to defraud the customer which isnt against the contract.