Thanks Andy, Still Voting NO

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by doolittle95, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. doolittle95

    doolittle95 Member

    Hey Andy, K hall and Jr. Thanks for saving our healthcare by allowing us to maintain our benefits in exchange for increases to our pension. Someone has to pay for it and I understand we can’t keep on expecting UPS to cover the rising cost of healthcare. Besides, I’m gonna live forever, never get injured and never retire. And if I do retire, well thanks to you, retirees can now pay more and keep their benefits as well! All on a presumably fixed income! And five years coverage for my family if I die?! Sweeeeet! Can’t wait to collect on that bene! Mail me my ballot now!! The right ballot, to the correct address and please don't give me more than a few days to go over the fine print.

    Thanks also, for not answering any of my questions on that conference call yesterday, or allowing me to complete my voice message at the end. When I’m not heard I feel validated and secure in knowing I’ve been adequately kept in my place. I mean, we teamsters have to be realistic, we can’t expect ever increasing pay and benefits forever. Nor can we expect true representation or a voice in exchange for our hard earned dollars. Just because we say no, don’t think we mean it….and you probably know what’s better for us in the long term anyways. But just in case you don’t know:

    I deserve better than the best. My beautiful family deserves better than the best. We all do.

    Teamsters, Look around you wherever you work, how many of your coworkers have dealt with on the job injuries, or have repetitive, chronic, overuse injuries? How many injuries have you yourself dealt with? How might those injuries affect your quality of life going forward? How many years have you put in and how much longer do you have to go? Have you ever considered the cost of diagnosing, treating and rehabilitating those injuries? UPS has, right down to the parcel pinching penny and that’s why they want out of the healthcare business. Good luck to you of course.

    Finally Andy thanks also for reminding me of how much I have to be grateful for. Just in time for Thanksgiving too. I know we have it so much better out West than in other regions. I am grateful we’ve had the good fortune to seemingly side step some of the issues that have derailed the pension and security of so many other regions. But this gratitude is not enough of a reason to accept what amounts to a reduction in benefits when UPS has made record profit year after year during the worst economic recession we’ve seen in our lifetime.

    For decades now we’ve been programmed to expect less and less
    . Think social security, healthcare, college education, gas prices, food prices; everything gets passed on to the consumer/worker, everything except increases to wages and benefits.

    I think the time is right to do a little reprogramming; we Teamsters in the West and 177 are in a unique position to shepherd in a change of expectations for the worker and middle income earner. It begins by voting NO on Andy’s rewrite and sending the message to the negotiators of both sides that: It’s time to affect a more equitable division of the profit pie. It’s time that working Teamsters expect a more equitable division of the profit pie. And until our elected officials(US) enact real legislation to control big pharma and insurance, corporations (like UPS) are going to have to EXPECT to absorb the increase in healthcare expenses as a cost of doing business and maintaining a happy, healthy and extremely competent workforce.
    It takes courage, patience, solidarity and conviction to affect real change in our world, but here is yet another opportunity to take a shot across the bow. You have earned the right to take a shot. If you share the sentiment I have expressed in this piece, then share it with your coworkers and encourage a NO Vote. We deserve better than the best.
  2. East coast navy

    East coast navy Veteran

    When Healthcare premiums go down. We will get better pay raises and (or) pension raises in the future contracts then other locals. Don't worry this is a good thing.
  3. LagunaBrown

    LagunaBrown Well-Known Member

    So the $9.85 to $10.85 an hour (which is more than minimum wage and an insult to people when you complain it being too low) into pension is not good enough for you?..... That's over $20,000 a year and $104,000 for the life of the contract....... That whole take away form your pension thing is lame cause no one is gonna feel sorry for you. Did you ever say thank you for the last 2 contracts that brought your pension contributions up ($5.50 dollars) from $4.10 an hour to $9.60? I didn't think so........
  4. doolittle95

    doolittle95 Member

  5. doolittle95

    doolittle95 Member

    You are loud and persistent if nothing else...I've read this same post of yours all over this forum.
    I think I'm clear that it's not good enough for me. I'm sorry you think its good enough for you. Get your heart checked. I hope I get readers to consider whether its really good enough for them.

    You think the argument, that funding the maintenance of our healthcare out of our own pension fund is BS, is lame? You think I'm playing some sort of sympathy card?

    Finally, when you assume.....
    I did shake Andy's hand, Carla's hand and I forget his name after the last contract, and Carla the one before. Its interesting that you said this because the one thing I specifically thanked them for was the pension increases, I told them the general wage increase wasn't quite enough. they screwed the part timers over, and new driver wage progression increase sucks. And split wages were BS. How the last contract passed I'll never understand.
  6. LagunaBrown

    LagunaBrown Well-Known Member

    I have not told you to vote yes or no but I will be persistent in being informative, accurate and realistic so everyone can make a fair decision. Most of you vote no guys are just TDU sheep, never go to meetings and cheerleaders for unrealistic demands. I compare it to teenagers.... Most eventually do grow up and find out that reality does not bat an eye at their self indulgent perception of life. No offense but when you thank someone for pension increases and then bitch that GWI and part timers got screwed it sounds a lot like an oxymoron to me. Like your "terribly pleased".
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
  7. Wally

    Wally Hailing from Parts Unknown.

    To the vote no crowd, how much in your opinion, should we be getting in (dollars amounts) for wages, pension, and healthcare?
  8. undies

    undies Active Member

    I'd be happy with $1,000,000
  9. Indecisi0n

    Indecisi0n Well-Known Member

  10. doolittle95

    doolittle95 Member

    Ah, good, marginalization, brand me as a "no vote" guy, and a TDU sheep? And immature, unrealistic and self indulgent...Have we met? Wait a minute...Mommy?

    But seriously, I've raised two teenagers, number three is 12 going on 18. I drive a vehicle built in '96 with 140k on it, my wife drives an '11 crv all cloth interior baby! fully unloaded! EVERY contact I have with local 104 is initiated by me, mostly because my stewards don't have the answer. Yes I go to meetings sometimes. I've never given TDU a dime. I have given the Teamsters over $20,000.00. I am not most "vote no" guys.

    The only unrealistic demand I hear recently is: accept good enough, because its better than every one else, and "just vote yes now and we'll get it back on the next contract" (this a direct quote from Andy M before the first vote on the original TA) This is BS and I have a hard time believing anyone can't see through it. It got voted down so a majority didn't buy it. And if you look at the supplements that have been re-voted thus far the vote counts are essentially 50/50. Members are struggling with this decision. I hope they don't settle.

    What I'm saying is take heart and get what you are worth and keep it, keep what many others have fought for. Anything that amounts to a give back or concession is unacceptable IMO. Think about it, doesn't every athlete try and max out his contract. Well I'm an exceptional athlete for UPS and I'm going to make every effort to get what I'm worth.

    Last, please don't tell me you have loved every distinctive piece of language you have voted yes for, or hated every part of whatever contract you might have voted no on...who are we kidding, you're a yes man. But, you don't see in color? You can't fathom that someone might like a pension increase while finding the GWI lacking? Or any other combination of issues thereof?

    Are you interested anything other than noise, numbers, clutter and distraction, under the guise of "being realistic so everyone can make a fair decision" and just settle...its all good...don't worry...and, it'll be OK? Are you a sheep? Somebody's lap dog? Or just incredibly narrow minded?
  11. LagunaBrown

    LagunaBrown Well-Known Member

    Wow that was long..... Let me make it simple.

    You will make $100,000 dollars a year.
    You will put 20,000+ dollars a year into your "green" pension.
    You will have platinum health coverage for you and your family.

    Like I said, no one is gonna feel sorry for you brother..... You can call me a "yes" man all you want but I call it reason and debate. If you think your worth 200k a year humping packages around then that is entirely your problem, not mine.
  12. doolittle95

    doolittle95 Member

    Whoa, that is simple, your right, like I said originally, send me my ballot now, the correct ballot to the correct address, I don't need time to look at the fine print....I have seen the light.

    BUT, the healthcare plan for WCT and 177 has a lifetime limit of 500k for retirees and fam. The ACA as currently written excludes taft-hartly plans from the ban on healthcare caps.

    I have had 3 minor surgeries in 2 years for a total of 190k+ I have a joint replacement surgery on the horizon, it is simple for me to see how I might exceed that cap in my lifetime. Until legislators enact real legislation towards healthcare reform. UPS and corporations in general must absorb those expenses as a cost of doing business. If you settle for nothing now, you'll settle for nothing later.

    Record profits=No concessions. Simple enough?

    Lets not ignore that were funding the maintenance of our healthcare and retirees, with our own pension contributions. this effectively weakens our GREEN pension fund out west. 177 not as green.

    I'm worthy of 250k for delivering packages. A lot more for humping packages.
  13. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Now this was a rational, well stated argument. I believe this sentiment is echoed by thousands of southwest members and some in 177. No need to argue with this position.

    I agree.

  14. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Why is it :censored2:, that you NEVER mention the diversion of pension money on the back end to pay for this wonderful healthcare plan? Why dont you give us the breakdown of that diversion ie: how much a year is taken out of our pensions and diverted to the "carve out".

    For example... .50 cents year one (x) times 2080= $1040.00 out of our pension the first year?

    Why do YOU leave this out of your equations? How can YOU say this is the same as what we have already over and over? How is diverting pension money OUT of our pensions a good thing for us in the future?

    If we are to be on a fixed income upon retirement, and then forced to pay $300.00 a month for coverage, then todays diversion will only hurt retirees later. That money that is lost to pay for this "identical" health care plan will hurt the most upon retirement.

    Lets at least get one thing straight. YOU are not in the position to give advice on voting or this contract. You didnt vote the first time around. No matter what your excuse. You have shown us all that you are nothing more than a parrot for Andy.

    You studied the talking points, thats for sure. You are somehow sold on the idea, we get it, but you are not in a position to give anyone advice. You want to hand out donuts, go for it. Thats the level of your experience.

    The last two contracts HURT all teamsters, and yet you want to toss them out there like they were gospel. In the last two contracts, the teamsters sold out the part timers by extending progression 4 YEARS. In the last contract, article 6 language opened the door to production harrassment and this new language makes it even easier for the company to discipline the members upto and including discharge from information recieved by technological sources.

    In the last contract, we voted on 9.5 language that was printed in the book, and yet, without our consent, the teamsters including H and Kelly allowed that language to be tossed out and replaced with useless ineffective language and excessive overtime only INCREASED across the board.

    In this new contract, the 9.5 language is now weaker and the length of time extended for settling a grievance.

    These are only a few of the real issues in the contract other than healthcare, but YOU, will rally like a short skirted teenaged girl for its passage.

    The southwest has some crappy cards to deal with, we get that. But then again, Hoffa/hall should have NEVER put us into this situation and should have negotiated to maintain our health care with UPS upto and including taking us on strike.

    Now we have to settle for "CRAPPY", and a guy like YOU who didnt vote wants to tell the rest of the voting community to vote yes.

    Seems oddly stupid.

  15. LagunaBrown

    LagunaBrown Well-Known Member

    Go back and read the other threads TOS...... I'm tired of explaining everything to you..... Doolittle As far as the cap that is a good point and I am looking into for personal knowledge but 250k? So I guess TDU is gonna start putting UPS drivers on their $150,000 list with the local officials?
  16. Indecisi0n

    Indecisi0n Well-Known Member

    Vote yes
  17. over10.5

    over10.5 Member

    I went to the meeting held at the laborers hall in Phoenix last weekend. I felt that Andy gave a good presentation to a great contract. We asked them to fix our healthcare and they did. I'll be voting "Yes".
  18. LagunaBrown

    LagunaBrown Well-Known Member

    Please correct me if I am wrong but retiree-only plans are exempt from many of the insurance mandates and insurance market reforms created under the ACA. So regardless of a Taft Hartley or company plan you will have the same $500.000 (per person) cap that was in our last SPD. That is not better or worse..... It is the same. If you want carte blanche on medical expenses you have to be an active employee.
  19. doolittle95

    doolittle95 Member

    I'll look into the friggin cap closer too now thx.

    However, I stand by the sentiment of my original post:

    This job, (these jobs) tear the human body up, anyone making a career at UPS will have worn out
    joints, chronic arthritis, and significantly reduced quality of life going forward. If you don't feel it yet you will. You will retire one day as sure as you will die and when you get there your going to need exceptional healthcare to deal with the physical issues your career has rewarded you with.

    UPS must take care of their people, they must absorb this expense as a cost of doing business. Every bargaining unit employee should adopt this mindset instead of the current mindset that expects to lose a little more every freaking contract.

    I'm simply trying to flip the paradigm here. Instead of we the people expecting less because we've heard that is what to expect for decades now. I want us to believe were worth a lot more.
    Shouldn't this paradigm be shifted to the executives? The executives and the ones managing the profit should begin to expect LESS of that profit, and EXPECT that a more equitable division of wealth is necessary. It better for the greater whole by far. better for the economy too. It would not require much of that $4bil+ profit for most of us to feel the shift in that paradigm.

    gotta go run cardboard now...ill have to finish later
  20. ibslick50

    ibslick50 New Member

    Laguna ca ca brown didnt vote the first time? This smuck is on here giving advice when he himself wont stand up and lay down some ink on a piece of paper and vote? Im a no vote but I respect the yes voters and as long as they vote. I bet he has the excuse of "I never got a ballot."