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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 775804" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>That is true in many respects although I think it's more self imposed on ourselves rather than some nefarious plot beyond our control or prevention. However on a bit of a comical note, my wife has worked in the legal field for the last 30 plus years and one of the benefits for me is having learned to use a law library. Over the years, I've helped her late at night or weekends doing legal research but a number of years ago, I happen to be looking in American Jurisprudence eg Am Jur 1st not the current 2nd addition which is a case law/legal encyclopedia. I can't remember now what I was looking up but I stumbled across the article entitled Master and Slave which goes with what you said about slavery. But where it really gets interesting was under that heading it said the following:</p><p></p><p>"See Employer/Employee" <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p><p></p><p>Under employer/employee it said that the terms master and slave and it's conditions in the 19th century became distasteful in larger civilized society so some of the conditons were changed also with the terms used to identify them and the new terms of employer/employee were used in it's place. Prior to state priviledged corporations and state capitalism, the existence of large mega, multi-national or global corporations were non-existent and people were mostly independent craftsman, small shopkeepers and tradesman, what we call self employed today and thus the backbone and heart of what was in the traditonal classical liberal laissez faire free market. '</p><p></p><p>There was also some wage labor in the employee sense of today but most was at will labor and typically wasn't longterm but rather short term, seasonal or transitional labor. People weren't typically drawn to wage labor which was a problem for large industry as a steady, available labor pool is of the first order for a business such as this. Studying 19th century growth of the american railroad, western cattle ranching, Chicago beef markets and the State in all the mix, you realize that none of these markets could sustain in a true free market and state authorized corporate authority, protection and priviledge was the only way for this type large scale market to ever make it at all. Also moving people into larger dense population centers created great labor pools for growing large industry but this in turn fed the need for industrial farmng practices in which the Chicago beef industry and railroads were a huge player. The next step was to make workers loyal to the central labor pool system and this is where debt and inflationary monetary system kept people locked in the game. In a footnote, The Southern Plantation system of human exploitation being a given, this system also had to go and thus the Civil War was vastly more an economic war than it was a cause of human freedom. Think the current lies of the Middle East Wars and you'll understand the point.</p><p></p><p>Going forward, the consequences of centralizing economics away from free local markets meant less and less small businesses, independent tradesman and craftsman and local self sustaining small markets becauses large scale industry was socialized and subsized by the Federal State under the auspices of economic central planning of a mercantilist (European) economic model. In otherwords, Alexander Hamilton won and Thomas Jefferson lost. Even major capitalists and industrialists used policy and political power to incorporate the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">Prussian Education model</span></a> as 29 year public school teacher <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">John Taylor Gatto</span></a> has very well documented.</p><p></p><p>Into the 20th century we had the emergence of the large scale factory floor (Henry Ford) but it was made to work by men like Frederick Taylor and his scientific management method. It's equally ironic that Lenin and Trotsky after the Bolsevik revolution endorsed the efforts of Aleksei Gastev who brought in American engineers to help formulate central plans using Taylor's Scientific methods for it's own industrial capacity. Funny how State intervention and foreign policy helped make the The Bear into a future beast in which to startle the masses with.</p><p></p><p>Not that Taylor's method in and of itself is a/the doomsday device (it was just a method)or even bad in itself but his model was used by both Soviet and American central planners in state sanctioned/priviledged or state owned industries to further the unsustainable centralized, consolidated large scale business model. Once this came into play, industry efficencies would in time begin to eliminate jobs as productivity increased. This is when the state is needed most as the turned out employees may well have knowledge and expertise to do the very same thing on a much smaller, localized scale therefore it's necessary for these large scale industires to use gov't to qwell the <a href="http://c4ss.org/content/4115" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">true free market</span></a> (see mid article at link for the "how" means) in order to suppress competition potential. Regulations and thus regulatory capture becomes a necessary and powerful tool towards those ends.</p><p></p><p>Even later so-called benevolent actions by the state such as social security and other worker welfare protections were indeed actions instigated by industry leaders themselves which keep the larger labor base at bay and in alliegience but also drive up labor costs not so much for the established industries but drastically effect new upstarts who must acquire extra capital on the initial startup costs in order to pay for these new regulatory requirements. Don't dare even look back at true free market unionism and see how that was subverted towards today's Statist Union model that in fact again benefits industry. Ironically ask a Taylorist who coined the term "fair day's work for a fair day's pay" and what he meant when he said it?</p><p></p><p>To those ends a study of Alfred Sloan and Gerard Swope is most important to understand how so-called American free market capitalism is in fact the biggest driver of American style socialism to which much of the rightwing much less the left wing turns a blind eye too. As much as republicans want to scream about Obamacare as socialism, they ignore the presense of large corp. interests at the table crafting the very legislation to begin with. And if one would look a bit further into the so-called "Chamber of Commerce" one would also find quite the level of state intervention, rightly called socialism, yet we never hear a word of complaint from the very people here who squall neverending about the socialism of others.</p><p></p><p>Ralph Raico, professor of history and direct student of the late Ludwig von Mises in 1991' wrote an article for Liberty Magazine that was republished at the Mises website entitled, <a href="http://mises.org/daily/4580" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">Liberation from the Parasite State</span></a> and when all people of ethical, moral and goodwill begin to realize and question the illusions before them, the parasite state will begin to show it's teeth even more and thus easier to see by more people. I also believe that whether he knows it or not, one person doing the most for this country right now on a purely economic note is one Dave Ramsey who tells his radio listeners to get out of debt, stay out of debt and live within one's means. We all need to follow that advice because regardless of politics I do believe the gov't is on an unsustainable path of debt and at some point in the future it will collaspe taking the economic system with it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 775804, member: 2189"] That is true in many respects although I think it's more self imposed on ourselves rather than some nefarious plot beyond our control or prevention. However on a bit of a comical note, my wife has worked in the legal field for the last 30 plus years and one of the benefits for me is having learned to use a law library. Over the years, I've helped her late at night or weekends doing legal research but a number of years ago, I happen to be looking in American Jurisprudence eg Am Jur 1st not the current 2nd addition which is a case law/legal encyclopedia. I can't remember now what I was looking up but I stumbled across the article entitled Master and Slave which goes with what you said about slavery. But where it really gets interesting was under that heading it said the following: "See Employer/Employee" :happy-very: Under employer/employee it said that the terms master and slave and it's conditions in the 19th century became distasteful in larger civilized society so some of the conditons were changed also with the terms used to identify them and the new terms of employer/employee were used in it's place. Prior to state priviledged corporations and state capitalism, the existence of large mega, multi-national or global corporations were non-existent and people were mostly independent craftsman, small shopkeepers and tradesman, what we call self employed today and thus the backbone and heart of what was in the traditonal classical liberal laissez faire free market. ' There was also some wage labor in the employee sense of today but most was at will labor and typically wasn't longterm but rather short term, seasonal or transitional labor. People weren't typically drawn to wage labor which was a problem for large industry as a steady, available labor pool is of the first order for a business such as this. Studying 19th century growth of the american railroad, western cattle ranching, Chicago beef markets and the State in all the mix, you realize that none of these markets could sustain in a true free market and state authorized corporate authority, protection and priviledge was the only way for this type large scale market to ever make it at all. Also moving people into larger dense population centers created great labor pools for growing large industry but this in turn fed the need for industrial farmng practices in which the Chicago beef industry and railroads were a huge player. The next step was to make workers loyal to the central labor pool system and this is where debt and inflationary monetary system kept people locked in the game. In a footnote, The Southern Plantation system of human exploitation being a given, this system also had to go and thus the Civil War was vastly more an economic war than it was a cause of human freedom. Think the current lies of the Middle East Wars and you'll understand the point. Going forward, the consequences of centralizing economics away from free local markets meant less and less small businesses, independent tradesman and craftsman and local self sustaining small markets becauses large scale industry was socialized and subsized by the Federal State under the auspices of economic central planning of a mercantilist (European) economic model. In otherwords, Alexander Hamilton won and Thomas Jefferson lost. Even major capitalists and industrialists used policy and political power to incorporate the [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system'][COLOR=red]Prussian Education model[/COLOR][/URL] as 29 year public school teacher [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto'][COLOR=red]John Taylor Gatto[/COLOR][/URL] has very well documented. Into the 20th century we had the emergence of the large scale factory floor (Henry Ford) but it was made to work by men like Frederick Taylor and his scientific management method. It's equally ironic that Lenin and Trotsky after the Bolsevik revolution endorsed the efforts of Aleksei Gastev who brought in American engineers to help formulate central plans using Taylor's Scientific methods for it's own industrial capacity. Funny how State intervention and foreign policy helped make the The Bear into a future beast in which to startle the masses with. Not that Taylor's method in and of itself is a/the doomsday device (it was just a method)or even bad in itself but his model was used by both Soviet and American central planners in state sanctioned/priviledged or state owned industries to further the unsustainable centralized, consolidated large scale business model. Once this came into play, industry efficencies would in time begin to eliminate jobs as productivity increased. This is when the state is needed most as the turned out employees may well have knowledge and expertise to do the very same thing on a much smaller, localized scale therefore it's necessary for these large scale industires to use gov't to qwell the [URL='http://c4ss.org/content/4115'][COLOR=red]true free market[/COLOR][/URL] (see mid article at link for the "how" means) in order to suppress competition potential. Regulations and thus regulatory capture becomes a necessary and powerful tool towards those ends. Even later so-called benevolent actions by the state such as social security and other worker welfare protections were indeed actions instigated by industry leaders themselves which keep the larger labor base at bay and in alliegience but also drive up labor costs not so much for the established industries but drastically effect new upstarts who must acquire extra capital on the initial startup costs in order to pay for these new regulatory requirements. Don't dare even look back at true free market unionism and see how that was subverted towards today's Statist Union model that in fact again benefits industry. Ironically ask a Taylorist who coined the term "fair day's work for a fair day's pay" and what he meant when he said it? To those ends a study of Alfred Sloan and Gerard Swope is most important to understand how so-called American free market capitalism is in fact the biggest driver of American style socialism to which much of the rightwing much less the left wing turns a blind eye too. As much as republicans want to scream about Obamacare as socialism, they ignore the presense of large corp. interests at the table crafting the very legislation to begin with. And if one would look a bit further into the so-called "Chamber of Commerce" one would also find quite the level of state intervention, rightly called socialism, yet we never hear a word of complaint from the very people here who squall neverending about the socialism of others. Ralph Raico, professor of history and direct student of the late Ludwig von Mises in 1991' wrote an article for Liberty Magazine that was republished at the Mises website entitled, [URL='http://mises.org/daily/4580'][COLOR=red]Liberation from the Parasite State[/COLOR][/URL] and when all people of ethical, moral and goodwill begin to realize and question the illusions before them, the parasite state will begin to show it's teeth even more and thus easier to see by more people. I also believe that whether he knows it or not, one person doing the most for this country right now on a purely economic note is one Dave Ramsey who tells his radio listeners to get out of debt, stay out of debt and live within one's means. We all need to follow that advice because regardless of politics I do believe the gov't is on an unsustainable path of debt and at some point in the future it will collaspe taking the economic system with it. [/QUOTE]
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