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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 590700" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>When Patrick Henry heard of the meeting in Philly to draft the Constitution, he correctly said, "I smell a rat!"</p><p> </p><p>Benjamin Franklin, who attended the proceedings but took more of a backseat was observed to have remarked as follows when the deed was done.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>As to the term "general welfare":</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>In relation to the term "common defense" consider this point:</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>Let's see, the Swiss have a people's militia system, a policy of non-intervention and have completely avoided all the great wars. Imagine that! Wonder what their <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stm" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">crime rate</span> </a>is with all those guns around? Maybe instead of looking at the gun itself, we should look at our glorification of war as a possible source of aggression and a root cause of criminal acts! The Swiss model demands a complete rethink IMO. Anybody hear of any acts of terrorism in Switzerland? Oh wait, there was <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/74a51894-0694-11de-ab0f-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">this act</span> </a>of barbaric brutality so I guess even the Swiss aren't immune from <a href="http://www.hollowmen.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/parties.png" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">global terorists organizations</span></a> and their <a href="http://www.hometownusa.com/wdc/images/Washington_DC_Arial.jpg" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">training camps</span></a>!</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /> That was fun wasn't it!</p><p> </p><p><a href="http://lewrockwell.com/orig2/adams7.html" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">Source</span></a> of above quotes and I would highly encourage a read of it too.</p><p> </p><p>Common defense and general welfare IMO by many founders were not terms considered as big in scope but very small and limiting factors. <strong>Both</strong> were limting factors! To stretch one while limiting the other creates precedent for those adovcating expansion of the other issue in giving them just cause. Arguing the founders belief in limitation becomes meaningless when you ignored them elsewhere with gross expansion of war powers and surveil authority just as it would be to assert that they meant for gov't to provide for every risk and boo-boo one might experience in the course of life. </p><p> </p><p>Truth is either side speaks directly to the very thing that Franklin so feared and what Patrick Henry smelled.</p><p> </p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 590700, member: 2189"] When Patrick Henry heard of the meeting in Philly to draft the Constitution, he correctly said, "I smell a rat!" Benjamin Franklin, who attended the proceedings but took more of a backseat was observed to have remarked as follows when the deed was done. As to the term "general welfare": In relation to the term "common defense" consider this point: Let's see, the Swiss have a people's militia system, a policy of non-intervention and have completely avoided all the great wars. Imagine that! Wonder what their [URL="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stm"][COLOR=red]crime rate[/COLOR] [/URL]is with all those guns around? Maybe instead of looking at the gun itself, we should look at our glorification of war as a possible source of aggression and a root cause of criminal acts! The Swiss model demands a complete rethink IMO. Anybody hear of any acts of terrorism in Switzerland? Oh wait, there was [URL="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/74a51894-0694-11de-ab0f-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1"][COLOR=red]this act[/COLOR] [/URL]of barbaric brutality so I guess even the Swiss aren't immune from [URL="http://www.hollowmen.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/parties.png"][COLOR=red]global terorists organizations[/COLOR][/URL] and their [URL="http://www.hometownusa.com/wdc/images/Washington_DC_Arial.jpg"][COLOR=red]training camps[/COLOR][/URL]! :happy-very: That was fun wasn't it! [URL="http://lewrockwell.com/orig2/adams7.html"][COLOR=red]Source[/COLOR][/URL] of above quotes and I would highly encourage a read of it too. Common defense and general welfare IMO by many founders were not terms considered as big in scope but very small and limiting factors. [B]Both[/B] were limting factors! To stretch one while limiting the other creates precedent for those adovcating expansion of the other issue in giving them just cause. Arguing the founders belief in limitation becomes meaningless when you ignored them elsewhere with gross expansion of war powers and surveil authority just as it would be to assert that they meant for gov't to provide for every risk and boo-boo one might experience in the course of life. Truth is either side speaks directly to the very thing that Franklin so feared and what Patrick Henry smelled. :peaceful: [/QUOTE]
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