The numbers game has gotten worse

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Just imagine what would happen if every driver in the country JUST FOR ONE DAY did their jobs properly and followed as many of the methods as they possibly could? It would send a stern message to management. But noooo......I don't think even half would be able to locate their jewels in order to do so.

 

[over9five]

But noooo......I don't think even half would be able to locate their jewels in order to do so.

CMs desk - bottom drawer.

 

[tieguy]

I used to challange my management to do my route for a week and I would match any time they posted. I even said I would sign a document saying I would forfeit my job if I didn't. The only stipulations were they had to not speed, not run, and take a full lunch. No one ever took me up on it. Much easier to target minor infractions. The best thing any driver can do is really learn the methods. Practice them every day until they become second nature. It takes some time and effort but in the long run the benefits are amazing. You will not be intimidated by OJS rides. The numbers will be managements problem not yours.

your lucky no one took you up on the challenge. Anyone of your sups can run hard for a week and smoke a route. Living up to those standards would have been the hard part.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Just some food for thought. people say numbers do not mean anything.
I believe the majority of UPS people Management and Hourly would agree that close to 90% of the the people do a great --not perfect --but great job every day.
Not the 80 --20 concept --more the 90 --10 --10% of the drivers in each center and division cause the majority of the overallowed hours ---always have --
70,000 drivers---10% --7000 drivers ---overallowed hours at 2.00 = 14,000 hours per day @ 40.00 = 560,000 dollars per day --times 282 work days = 15,792,000. 00 .
Lots of money going out the door each day.
These ten % are consistently bad --never have a good day --come in the same time each night ---run the SAME spor each day --until they are OJSed.
We all know this is true ---makes it hard on all drivers when MGMT -does not PROFILE.
Minor infractions are enforced on all to avoid the charge of targeting ----This is hard for most people to accept ---but it is the reality of the situation.

And now you did all of that math based on their imaginary numbers. How about doing it based on an actual route with an actual driver and not something contrived by someone living in "vitual" reality?

Just imagine what would happen if every driver in the country JUST FOR ONE DAY did their jobs properly and followed as many of the methods as they possibly could? It would send a stern message to management. But noooo......I don't think even half would be able to locate their jewels in order to do so.

This is better than going on strike. Killing them with their own game. Now where did I leave those jewels?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

And now you did all of that math based on their imaginary numbers. How about doing it based on an actual route with an actual driver and not something contrived by someone living in "vitual" reality?

Whether the numbers are imaginary or not, we all know that there are milkers and runners and that it is the milkers who are responsible for most of the overallowed hours. We also know that milkers tend to pick up the pace when they have someone on the car with them. The focus on production will only intensify and I think you will see language in the next contract concerning this beyond the rather vague "fair day's work for a fair day's pay", to include SPORH, how it is established and the discipline procedure for failure to maintain.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Whether the numbers are imaginary or not, we all know that there are milkers and runners and that it is the milkers who are responsible for most of the overallowed hours. We also know that milkers tend to pick up the pace when they have someone on the car with them. The focus on production will only intensify and I think you will see language in the next contract concerning this beyond the rather vague "fair day's work for a fair day's pay", to include SPORH, how it is established and the discipline procedure for failure to maintain.

The numbers aren't made for US, they are made for mgmt. The better mgmt's numbers look to their bosses, the better the bonus for mgmt. When you and evryone else got trained, were you told that you had to reach a certain number and maintain a certain number so that mgmt could receive their glory or were you told to maintain a certain amount of sporh? There is no way that they can have you running a car with so many stops one day and so many more stops another day and expect you to maintain the same sporh. This is where their ficticious numbers come into play.

You're right about slackers, but I don't think that the majority of this is due to the few slackers in each building. I think that somewhere they came up with a new formula and decided to implement this formula, raising the bar, making it impossible to reach the numbers they want without killing yourself. If not, then why would a route that normally has 115 stops, start having 135 stops and more miles, yet be expected to be finished at the same time?

Another thing I don't get is this virtual time study. What if Joe run and gun is on the route when they do said time study? How does the time study know that I have to wait for an elevator each time at a certain stop? How come the PAL labels in the pkg car are the same exact number for a whole city block, yet I'm not supposed to have to sort anymore?

I'm just saying that there's a whole list of variables when it comes to people being over/underallowed, and the SERVICE we were trained for is not "allowing" for any of this.

 

[jimstud]

Whether the numbers are imaginary or not, we all know that there are milkers and runners and that it is the milkers who are responsible for most of the overallowed hours. We also know that milkers tend to pick up the pace when they have someone on the car with them. The focus on production will only intensify and I think you will see language in the next contract concerning this beyond the rather vague "fair day's work for a fair day's pay", to include SPORH, how it is established and the discipline procedure for failure to maintain.

like i have said before thank god you are not on the negotiating committee because you would sell us all down the river. how could you possibily have sporh language in the contract when routes seem to change every day? you spend enough time on the bc to read about drivers saying how their routes change every day with splits here and there.
i really think you are wrong about drivers out there milking it. i would say 95% of the drivers i represent go out and bust their ass every day. there are 1 or 2 that lay down but that is it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

like i have said before thank god you are not on the negotiating committee because you would sell us all down the river. how could you possibily have sporh language in the contract when routes seem to change every day? you spend enough time on the bc to read about drivers saying how their routes change every day with splits here and there.
i really think you are wrong about drivers out there milking it. i would say 95% of the drivers i represent go out and bust their ass every day. there are 1 or 2 that lay down but that is it.

Island Fox used 90% so you both are really close. You and I have both been around for awhile and we have both seen milkers/slackers.

I do think that you will production standards addressed in the next contract.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

The ONLY way SPORH could ever be fairly recognized by the union is if management (or should I say IE?) set fair allowances that were LOCKED IN and didn't fluctuate. Like say......on Fridays! If they were locked in this route cutting and increase in stops thats going on nationally could have never happened.

 

[jimstud]

Island Fox used 90% so you both are really close. You and I have both been around for awhile and we have both seen milkers/slackers.

I do think that you will production standards addressed in the next contract.

how? you and i both know routes change every day so how could you hold someone to production standards when they are not the same every day?

 

[Re-Raise]

your lucky no one took you up on the challenge. Anyone of your sups can run hard for a week and smoke a route. Living up to those standards would have been the hard part.

Oh brother here we go again

My sups can't run a missort without getting detailed directions from a real driver and stopping for a cheeseburger.

 

[soberups]

your lucky no one took you up on the challenge. Anyone of your sups can run hard for a week and smoke a route. Living up to those standards would have been the hard part.

My sup is 53 yrs old with a bad back who was a driver for 3 years. My Center Manager doesnt even have a DOT card, and spent a couple of months driving during a peak before getting promoted. They wouldnt last 10 minutes on my pickup route, not to mention the rest of the day.

 

[upsset]

Just some food for thought. people say numbers do not mean anything.
I believe the majority of UPS people Management and Hourly would agree that close to 90% of the the people do a great --not perfect --but great job every day.
Not the 80 --20 concept --more the 90 --10 --10% of the drivers in each center and division cause the majority of the overallowed hours ---always have --
70,000 drivers---10% --7000 drivers ---overallowed hours at 2.00 = 14,000 hours per day @ 40.00 = 560,000 dollars per day --times 282 work days = 15,792,000. 00 .
Lots of money going out the door each day.
These ten % are consistently bad --never have a good day --come in the same time each night ---run the SAME spor each day --until they are OJSed.
We all know this is true ---makes it hard on all drivers when MGMT -does not PROFILE.
Minor infractions are enforced on all to avoid the charge of targeting ----This is hard for most people to accept ---but it is the reality of the situation.

Island why don't you do the math on the 15% that sort for 20-30 minutes before start time, work through there lunch (1 hr) and run there butts off breaking every safe work and delivery method ever published?

 

[Omega man]

UPS currently has no fair or accurate way to gauge production. SPORH will never be a production gauge in future contracts. Our Union will never accept a production standard that completely disregards all of the variables in our workday. I don't believe our union will ever agree to any production gauge devised by UPS.

 

[purplesky]

I dont think UPS would really want the actual math equation in a contract that shows how they get their numbers. Wouldnt that put a cap on stops for many routes. Right now they can make it up as they go and that is what they do. So by defining a drivers day using real math UPS would be screwing itself. Its this route elimination game that is really killing things. Drivers are getting too spread out to run splits and its just not working. The people that are doing dispatch just dont know the routes at all.

 

[dilligaf]

Safely locked away.

CMs desk - bottom drawer.

 

[Just Numbers]

Island why don't you do the math on the 15% that sort for 20-30 minutes before start time, work through there lunch (1 hr) and run there butts off breaking every safe work and delivery method ever published?

Just like Washington. Pulling numbers out of the air. Did the CBO score these numbers?

 

[island1fox]

And now you did all of that math based on their imaginary numbers. How about doing it based on an actual route with an actual driver and not something contrived by someone living in "vitual" reality?

Steve,
I believe you meant "virtual"--but in any event --there is virtual--fantasy--reality and LA-LA land ---- Where do you fit in ?
I would imagine by your comment that you believe there are no consistent poor performers ---Ups does not know how many drivers---how many hours and the related cost !!!
Sounds like LA-LA land !!!!

This is better than going on strike. Killing them with their own game. Now where did I leave those jewels?

 

[island1fox]

Island why don't you do the math on the 15% that sort for 20-30 minutes before start time, work through there lunch (1 hr) and run there butts off breaking every safe work and delivery method ever published?

Upset,
If you are interested in that math equasion --do it yourself !!! My original response regarding consistent poor performers was underlining the fact that it is not a numbers game ----but a business with a large dollar number attached to poor performance. Seems like a little truthful common sense irritates some --can anyone say 10 percenter ????

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Originally Posted by stevetheupsguy
And now you did all of that math based on their imaginary numbers. How about doing it based on an actual route with an actual driver and not something contrived by someone living in "vitual" reality?

Steve,
I believe you meant "virtual"--but in any event --there is virtual--fantasy--reality and LA-LA land ---- Where do you fit in ?
I would imagine by your comment that you believe there are no consistent poor performers ---Ups does not know how many drivers---how many hours and the related cost !!!
Sounds like LA-LA land !!!!

This is better than going on strike. Killing them with their own game. Now where did I leave those jewels?

Nice try at sidestepping what I said by hitting on my misspelled word. The fact of the matter is that you neglected many factors in your equation. I think the sum of your problem would come out differently if you threw in realistic data.

BTW, no one said there aren't people that take their time, I'm just thinking that you're lumping in the guys that actually do the methods and may seem to be dragging their feet, though these extra steps, which most had not done in the beginning, makes it seem as though they have slowed down purposely. This, my friend, is something that can't be judged by the "eye in the sky", and must be viewed with human eyes.