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The Truth About Right to Work (for less) in Indiana
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<blockquote data-quote="PobreCarlos" data-source="post: 934628" data-attributes="member: 16651"><p>menotyou;</p><p></p><p>Bear in mind I'm not commenting personally on you, either. But let's review what I said in light of some facts.</p><p></p><p>1. In the recent national election, only 231000 of an [alleged] membership of 1.4 million even bothered to even vote....via a MAIL-IN ballot, no less! Think what you will, but to my mind that defines more than 82% of Teamsters as being somewhat less than "enthusiastic".</p><p></p><p>2. Of the less than 18% remaining, look what proportion support the denial of future individual national election voting privileges for Teamsters. And then look at the proportion of THOSE who support voluntary (not coerced) "membership"......and then consider what that says about their "honesty".</p><p></p><p>3. From those, look at how many STILL are belly-aching about things such as deregulation (as if the consumer should continue to subsidize a special interest minority), or who make excuses for the failure over the last 35-40 years of the union to make even a decent EFFORT to organize the competition facing their union's largest employer. Intelligent?</p><p></p><p>4. Then, from the remnant that's still around, look at how many were (or are!) willing to face head-on the union's pension problems, which were overwhelmingly caused by the union putting their core transportation employers out of business AT A TIME WHEN THE INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE WAS THRIVING? Intelligent? Then the proportion of those who thought that UPS was responsible for bailing-out the union for it's OWN mistakes. Honest? (in considering this, I suggest you review the reasons for the last national UPS strike, or "Sprague v. Central States", or the codicil the union agreed to a few contracts back in terms of pension funding. Or the SIX BILLION UPS coughed-up (even while being fully "paid-up" in terms of the pension contributions it owed for ITS employees) to cover the union's failings. And what happened to that six billion after it was received. Again, "honest"?</p><p></p><p>5. Then, of the (by now almost minute) remainder, take away those who, in spite of statistic after statistic showing that unemployment has been the defining characteristic of Teamster membership over the last few decades (remember those more-than-a-million jobs lost during a time - again - when the INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE WAS THRIVING) claim that being a member offers job protection generally. Or that UNEMPLOYED Teamsters are making more than their EMPLOYED brethren? Intelligent? Honest? And then those who support the contracts negotiated over the last 30 years in light of what groups such as the UPS p/t'ers are making in order to prop-up the union? Or the funds contributed to entities like the Western States pension on behalf of p/ters....many (most?) of whom will never see a penny of those contributions returned to them. Again..."honest"? "Intelligent"?</p><p></p><p>6. Then, of those left, how many are able to reasonably, responsibly, and honestly able to support their position....and not [figuratively] just stick their heads in the sand instead of POSITIVELY confronting the issues the union is facing? For example, what proportion are claiming union "growth" based on the most recent statistics that indicate that, in terms of the rate of union participation compared to the total number employed, union membership CONTINUED to decline, albeit at a slower rate? </p><p></p><p>Sorry, but in light of the above, "scarce as hens teeth" could appear to be an exaggeration on the positive side. </p><p></p><p>Again, I'm not casting aspersions against you personally....but I also don't believe that, in light of your post, you've put yourself in a position to claim that you're intelligently responsive to the broader issues the union faces generally. Maybe you are. Maybe you can justify the loss of the majority of the union's core industry members their jobs. Maybe you can justify the loss of so much in the way of potential wages and pension benefits the UPS members have suffered. Good luck! Personally, I just don't believe you can "enthusiastically", "honestly", and "intelligently" do so.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="PobreCarlos, post: 934628, member: 16651"] menotyou; Bear in mind I'm not commenting personally on you, either. But let's review what I said in light of some facts. 1. In the recent national election, only 231000 of an [alleged] membership of 1.4 million even bothered to even vote....via a MAIL-IN ballot, no less! Think what you will, but to my mind that defines more than 82% of Teamsters as being somewhat less than "enthusiastic". 2. Of the less than 18% remaining, look what proportion support the denial of future individual national election voting privileges for Teamsters. And then look at the proportion of THOSE who support voluntary (not coerced) "membership"......and then consider what that says about their "honesty". 3. From those, look at how many STILL are belly-aching about things such as deregulation (as if the consumer should continue to subsidize a special interest minority), or who make excuses for the failure over the last 35-40 years of the union to make even a decent EFFORT to organize the competition facing their union's largest employer. Intelligent? 4. Then, from the remnant that's still around, look at how many were (or are!) willing to face head-on the union's pension problems, which were overwhelmingly caused by the union putting their core transportation employers out of business AT A TIME WHEN THE INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE WAS THRIVING? Intelligent? Then the proportion of those who thought that UPS was responsible for bailing-out the union for it's OWN mistakes. Honest? (in considering this, I suggest you review the reasons for the last national UPS strike, or "Sprague v. Central States", or the codicil the union agreed to a few contracts back in terms of pension funding. Or the SIX BILLION UPS coughed-up (even while being fully "paid-up" in terms of the pension contributions it owed for ITS employees) to cover the union's failings. And what happened to that six billion after it was received. Again, "honest"? 5. Then, of the (by now almost minute) remainder, take away those who, in spite of statistic after statistic showing that unemployment has been the defining characteristic of Teamster membership over the last few decades (remember those more-than-a-million jobs lost during a time - again - when the INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE WAS THRIVING) claim that being a member offers job protection generally. Or that UNEMPLOYED Teamsters are making more than their EMPLOYED brethren? Intelligent? Honest? And then those who support the contracts negotiated over the last 30 years in light of what groups such as the UPS p/t'ers are making in order to prop-up the union? Or the funds contributed to entities like the Western States pension on behalf of p/ters....many (most?) of whom will never see a penny of those contributions returned to them. Again..."honest"? "Intelligent"? 6. Then, of those left, how many are able to reasonably, responsibly, and honestly able to support their position....and not [figuratively] just stick their heads in the sand instead of POSITIVELY confronting the issues the union is facing? For example, what proportion are claiming union "growth" based on the most recent statistics that indicate that, in terms of the rate of union participation compared to the total number employed, union membership CONTINUED to decline, albeit at a slower rate? Sorry, but in light of the above, "scarce as hens teeth" could appear to be an exaggeration on the positive side. Again, I'm not casting aspersions against you personally....but I also don't believe that, in light of your post, you've put yourself in a position to claim that you're intelligently responsive to the broader issues the union faces generally. Maybe you are. Maybe you can justify the loss of the majority of the union's core industry members their jobs. Maybe you can justify the loss of so much in the way of potential wages and pension benefits the UPS members have suffered. Good luck! Personally, I just don't believe you can "enthusiastically", "honestly", and "intelligently" do so. [/QUOTE]
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