There will be "concessions"

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by krash, Aug 28, 2011.

  1. krash

    krash Go big orange

    How many believe there won't be any concessions made in the 2013 contract? Now I am in no way in support of concessions! There are too many much needed improvements. But I bet my house that UPS is gonna want numerous concessions. And as bad as things have gotten working for UPS I honestly feel the IBT will cave on some and try and tell us this is "The Best Contract Ever". What are y'all thought on this? Do you thing the IBT will listen to us and try to actually improve our contract or give things up or do some trading?
  2. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    The "contract" from one to the next and onward is a progressive and morphing agreement that defines relationships that have evolved in the needs of the Union workers and the company in the changing economic environment.

    As you think about the above observation. Think about UPS versus the competition. The Union is already losing F/T union jobs at UPS and realistically, the Teamsters can only hope to maintain the current contract from an economic agreement. Changes to the existing contract that increase company costs without negotiating a complimentary decrease in company costs is a non starter.

    I see this contract defined as one with many negotiations and a lot of back and forth with almost everything being heavily analyzed along the line of costs.

    I do hope the contract gets signed and approved well ahead of the contract expiration. If not, then many people at UPS will lose their current positions - Union and Non-Union.
  3. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    Think about UPS's record profits quarter after quarter.

    Then think about who broke their backs earning those profits, and how many "lost" jobs were simply people moved so that others could be overburdened.

    Don't give an inch. They will blink faster than they did in 1997.
  4. krash

    krash Go big orange

    Yes. And the contract is more than just monetary concerns. I want better than to just simply "maintain" the current language. And my brothers and sisters have shown that there are many co ferns to be addressed and improved on. I hope our leadership pushes for those things and we get a contract showing it. If they settle for concessions, I pray everyone votes "NO"!
  5. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    UPS has not had a record profit since 2006.
    And the recovery on profits has not been in US domestic ground volume, which maintains (no creation in many years) driver jobs. The future profits of UPS will continue to be in US premium products, International products and Logistical services.

    I understand where you are coming from and I relate to that position. The creation of jobs here in the US other than attrition of current drivers looks very bleak. UPS understands this and so does the Teamsters top level people.
  6. 22.34life

    22.34life Active Member

    this new contract will be worse than our excisting one,no will come to the table playing hardball and in this economy public opinion will not be on our side if we strike and ups knows this and will use it as leverage.i believe the union will not get us a better contract in 2013,ups is looking to break the union sometime in the not to distant future and this contract will be the one that begins that process.i believe we will be looking at the elimanation of 22.3 jobs and benefits for p/t new hires that get in after august 1, 2013.this is just some of the things that i think will occur in the next contract.even though it is the last thing i want to see happen a strike is the best thing for the teamsters,it will show that we mean buisness and are not going to back down,which is the opposite of what ups thinks now.
  7. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    I met with a financial adviser yesterday (cause it's never too early to start planning for life post UPS) and as of right now everything looks pretty good for my retirement plans. Two huge factors will be pension payout and healthcare costs and consequently those are my two biggest concerns going forward, so I will evaluate any contract primarily on how it affects those two things. Hourly wage/raises run a close second, after that it's pretty much all gravy to me at this point. I'm not going to vote no just because there is no provision for quadruple time after 8.5 or something like that.
  8. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    The whole contract is concessions by both sides. However, I hope that both the union and the company work on coming up with a contract that can make it that UPS can be competitive in the marketplace. In the past, FDX had much lower costs, but they had the disadvantage of having a large disadvantage in delivery density. FDX Ground has grown at a very fast rate, espescially recently. The density gap is closing. If FDX does ever combine their two units then this will reduce a huge amount of duplicate costs that they currently incur. I think it's a mattter of time and within 5 years you will see FDX ground and FDX Air merge into one unit similar to how UPS operates. I didn't think this would have happened, but with all the lawsuits that it is a matter of time, where they will see it is profitable to combine their fleets together.

    If you look at the financial reports from FDX, in FY 2008 FDX Ground delivered 3.365 Million Pkgs/Day, In FY 2011 FDX delivered 3.746 Million Pkgs/Day. A change of almost 400,000 pkgs per day. If you figure 2 pieces per stop, that's 200,000 stops per day. (This is just the growth over 3 years, not total volume\stops). At 200 spc, that's 1000 driver routes alone lost due to FDX growth. Now, you may dispute pkgs/stop or spc. But there's not much denying that for every package that FDX Ground delivers that is a package delivered by our non union competitor and a package that UPS could have\should have delivered.

    One of FDX's biggest marketing now is on much faster FDX ground is compared to UPS ground. If you don't believe me, go to FDX's website and look at their transit time and compare it to our transit time on

    The main reason FDX has a larger advantage is that their feeder network feeding loads from hub to hub is done by "gypsy" non union drivers vs using either our union drivers or by TOFC. Now I'm not talking about the work going from the local hub to the local center and back. I'm talking about the long haul work. If you look at Burlington VT, it takes UPS 4 days to get to FL, and 4-5 Days to get to TX, FDX takes 3 days to FL and 3 day to get to 95% of TX, 4 days for the rest. There are similar differences in many areas of the US. I see that one area that UPS will want to do is to be able to outsource the long haul work.

    Also, if you look at the rate UPS incurs to pay our drivers including pay, as well as benefits and compare it to what a FDX ground person is paid. There is a huge disadvantage. I know people won't like it, but I see a split wage tier being implemented. I realize this isn't popular, but if you look at other industries like the auto industry this has already been done to compete with auto manufacturers without the higher costs associated with the UAW.

    If you look at other areas that UPS has done to cut costs, you can see where we already have done the following over the last 20 years or so:
    1. Reduced the mgmt structure by reducing the amount of regions. (I agree this was overdue)
    2. Reduced the mgmt structure by reducing the amount of districts (ditto).
    3. Reduced staff for CSTC, it used to be every district had their own CSTC, they consolidated this and I believe but not sure, they outsourced this too.
    4. Same as number 3 for other departments like Payroll, F&A etc
    5. Similar to number 3, technology has virtually eliminated jobs just as was needed for Data Processing, and Delivery Information.
    6. Many areas besides consolidating districts have also consolidated divisions, so now 1 pkg division manager is doing what 2 or 3 pkg division managers used to do. Similarly, many facilities that used to have 2 center managers, now have 1.
    7. Last year, there was a pay freeze for mgmt folks
    8. Starting quite a few years ago, mgmt had to chip in on their medical costs. Now I pay between my share of benefits and for my flexible spending acct to cover copays over 450/month. That used to be 0.

    I think that it's time for their to be some cuts on the teamster side as well. Similar to what has happened in other union industries (like UAW etc).

    Now, there's been other areas that I see the unions point about how the CEO pay and other of the top Sr VP's have risen dramatically. Although I disagree in how it was done, and when it was done. They made UPS top folks receive pay closer to industry average for our Sr executives. I think most all will agree that UPS drivers get at or near the top pay compared to others in the same industry. Shouldn't top mgmt also make at or above what other top mgmt makes in other similar companies?
  9. bigblu 2 you

    bigblu 2 you Active Member

    concessions are for losers,we are winners.dont buy into any sad stories,,,top level orators are working on heart-rendering stories ask we speak.if we can afford ,race cars,crappy commercials,and dead weight in offices at all levels,then its time to boost and not concede.
  10. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    there will only be concessions if we (teamsters) let them happen..... If you dont want them, dont vote "yes"
  11. BCFan

    BCFan Active Member

    no givebacks Vote Pope for Hope
  12. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    nope.. i voted "no" last contract. It didn't work
  13. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    I'm sure a lot of folks from the UAW said the same thing. It didn't turn out to well for them. Advertising is not a waste of money. FDX advertises a lot more then UPS does. As I indicated earlier, we cut out a lot of mgmt positions over the last 20 years and a lot of that was done over the last 5 or so.
  14. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    it takes more than just you trousers.... a lot more.... thats my whole point
  15. 40 and out

    40 and out Active Member

    The only way UPS compares to other union industries is that we are union. These other companies either ceased to exist or would have without concessions and bailouts. As long as UPS is still a successful company there will be no concessions. The concessions that management people have had to give are solely because UPS can do it because you have no choice but to take what UPS does to you or quit. I don't know of any union company that is doing as well as UPS. As long as this continues,we may not get large improvements,but there will not be concessions.
  16. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    And from what I can see there is still a lot more dead weight that needs to be cut. We are paying 80K a year to center managers that arent even allowed to make a decision. You could replace them all with $10 an hour clerks who read PCM's and rubber-stamp warning letters and no one would even notice a difference. And as long as we are doing stupid crap like spending $1000+ to investigate and prosecute "accidents" that involve cracking a $6 piece of mirror glass on a tree limb, I am really not interested in hearing any more drivel about the competition's "non-union cost advantage".
  17. bigblu 2 you

    bigblu 2 you Active Member

    uaw.?they sailed that ship into the rocks.we handle trucking,freight,carhaul,small package, warehouse etc. and are much more diverse than uaw or umwa.maybe if we fold the government will bail us out too? i can tell by your post you will concede to whatever demands are asked. i bet you are afraid to ask the waitress for a refill.and yes the commercials are crappy.we are asked as drivers to keep our hair cut and appearance level high and the dude in the "white board"is a goofy hippie looking long as the cow is giving milk i want a refill.just sayin
  18. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    My point is that back in the 60's and early 70's and on. Don't you think that people at UAW said the same thing. I'm not saying the downfall of GM and Chrysler etc was only due to the UAW. There was a lot of blame to spread around. But I'm willing to be the attitude they had then is similar to the attitude you are showing now. The majority of customers are going to utilize the low cost option when given a choice. I think we can all agree that UPS pays far more to UPS drivers the FDX drivers get (whether FDX air or FDX Ground contractors). As they grow, they gain the advantages of density that we had. If they combine their operations they will have some bumps in the road, but they will vastly improve their overall density and then we will really be in trouble. For 20 minutes stop thinking about UPS Teamsters vs UPS Managment. instead think of UPS vs FDX. Look at the financial reports for FDX, look at how their volume is growing in the ground segment. That volume is coming from pkgs that could have been ours. Look at their growth rate, compare it to UPS % growth rate in ground pkgs. Then think of how long we can continue letting them grow faster then us.
  19. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    I hate to sound like a broken record but I think that we will see a two-tiered wage system at least discussed in 2013.
  20. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Speaking of a broken record..................have you mailed my check yet?

    Remember...Under the Current Events Section; the thread titled "2010 Census To Mail or Not To Mail" ; post #s 58, 59 and 60.....a week's pay ??

    Just thought I would remind you. I'm anxious to make that shopping trip.