Time to go

[Indecisi0n]

I vote for change.

 

[Buck Fifty]

Actually up to the end of the 80's this was the case... of course, not in writing.
By the time 2000 got here, it was a hope and a prayer.
UPS and everyone else were warning it could not last by then.
​And here we are today.

So we are finally here. It's about time !Just in case I don't get back ! It was fun though.

 

[Buck Fifty]

Smile everyone !

 

[The Milkman]

Bull. Nobody guaranteed you no-cost retirement benefits, although that may have been what it was at the time. I guess you're pretender this...

So when I retired, read my options of the Husband wife pension etc, and was told how much my monthly benfits would cost me in retirement. I do have a monthly cost which I understood, but being lied to is this just business as usual for Big Brown? Bait and Switch tactics or is it just screw the guys who put UPS where it is today now that we are of no use to them anymore?? Someday you will get yours.........You deserve it....

 

[pretender]

Please demonstrate a passive-aggressive insult I've originated unsolicitedly, sans our trolling friends.

Seriously, you're an emblem of the type of co-worker I dispose: instigate, instigate, instigate ... then whine, cry & complain when something's said back.

Good luck in your retirement. A nearby co-worker was listening to Rush Limbaugh the other day, and there was this whole discussion on why employees feel entitled to retiree benefits, as it made no sense for companies to spend money on employees who were no longer productive for it. He inspired me -- present me a contract that eliminated retiree benefits, I'm all for it.

Wait a minute--You are the one who who said that you were taught to "attack the argument, not the person". As soon as someone questions something that you copied from an internet search, you are on the defensive, and the insults are not far behind. Off the top of my head, I recall you stating in a response to a former manager, that you voted for Bush when you were "young and stupid" (passive-aggressive). Or, you will begin a response to the same person with LOL (dismissive). More recently, you expressed your sorrow to someone because he had to turn to Dave Ramsey to do his thinking for him. So let's drop the holier-than-thou attitude.

 

[oldngray]

When a pension is part of the benefits package included a contract we worked under of course we expect to receive a pension. It IS owed to us. If UPS had not paid into pension for employees then we should have received more money in wages instead. But some (disgruntled part timers) feel full timers are already over paid. I guess they expect all the money to go into their pockets instead. Part timers ARE getting hosed but that is a completely different issue. And PT sups are slave labor but it was their own choice to go into management.

 

[Bagels]

Wait a minute--You are the one who who said that you were taught to "attack the argument, not the person". As soon as someone questions something that you copied from an internet search, you are on the defensive, and the insults are not far behind. Off the top of my head, I recall you stating in a response to a former manager, that you voted for Bush when you were "young and stupid" (passive-aggressive). Or, you will begin a response to the same person with LOL (dismissive). More recently, you expressed your sorrow to someone because he had to turn to Dave Ramsey to do his thinking for him. So let's drop the holier-than-thou attitude.

I've respectively addressed your counter assertions. On multiple occasions, you launched personal attacks against me -- when I suggested you stop, you gave me your version of the Checkers speech. My positions, then my character, were attacked multiple times within this thread. I responded to each respectfully, but they kept coming. A volunteer moderator even "liked" one. I am human, and to think that at that point I'm not going to express myself stronger is simply naive.

You've yet to identify a situation in which I responded to an assertion with an unsolicited "passive-aggressive" response. You've twisted some of my comments out of character -- e.g. I told the person I was happy Ramsey worked for him, but that doesn't mean he'll for for everybody, as the person suggested. Furthermore, that person earlier was explicit (and I'm paraphrasing) that Cheryl should ban me and others from the forums "for lacking common sense" -- and by "lacking common sense," he meant disagreeing with his opinions.

I do provide references for my assertions. In a classic example that illustrates a minority of posters like yourself on these forums: earlier this week, a poster reminded the forum that work shoes can be written off from their taxes. I provided a link to the IRS website that was explicit that clothing that can reasonably be worn outside the workplace, even if dedicated for work, was not eligible for deduction. I pointed out that while I could care less what people do & do not write off on their taxes, I would share facts with those who would otherwise be mislead. Of course, several responses came back 'I don't care what the IRS says, I say they're eligible so they're eligible!!!' Step back for a minute... do you see the silliness in that? While I share things that "I've copied from an Internet search," I did have the knowledge on what they were & where to find them.

But alas, now I do know where the name "pretender" came from: you instigate, then "pretender" your innocence and then mouth your version of the Checkers speech. Integrity's offering his assistance on these types of matters. I suggest you contact him:

http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f12/fix-your-broken-352145/

 

[cosmo1]

Who needs Dave?

 

[The Milkman]

When a pension is part of the benefits package included a contract we worked under of course we expect to receive a pension. It IS owed to us. If UPS had not paid into pension for employees then we should have received more money in wages instead. But some (disgruntled part timers) feel full timers are already over paid. I guess they expect all the money to go into their pockets instead. Part timers ARE getting hosed but that is a completely different issue. And PT sups are slave labor but it was their own choice to go into management.

 

[The Milkman]

I've respectively addressed your counter assertions. On multiple occasions, you launched personal attacks against me -- when I suggested you stop, you gave me your version of the Checkers speech. My positions, then my character, were attacked multiple times within this thread. I responded to each respectfully, but they kept coming. A volunteer moderator even "liked" one. I am human, and to think that at that point I'm not going to express myself stronger is simply naive.

You've yet to identify a situation in which I responded to an assertion with an unsolicited "passive-aggressive" response. You've twisted some of my comments out of character -- e.g. I told the person I was happy Ramsey worked for him, but that doesn't mean he'll for for everybody, as the person suggested. Furthermore, that person earlier was explicit (and I'm paraphrasing) that Cheryl should ban me and others from the forums "for lacking common sense" -- and by "lacking common sense," he meant disagreeing with his opinions.

I do provide references for my assertions. In a classic example that illustrates a minority of posters like yourself on these forums: earlier this week, a poster reminded the forum that work shoes can be written off from their taxes. I provided a link to the IRS website that was explicit that clothing that can reasonably be worn outside the workplace, even if dedicated for work, was not eligible for deduction. I pointed out that while I could care less what people do & do not write off on their taxes, I would share facts with those who would otherwise be mislead. Of course, several responses came back 'I don't care what the IRS says, I say they're eligible so they're eligible!!!' Step back for a minute... do you see the silliness in that? While I share things that "I've copied from an Internet search," I did have the knowledge on what they were & where to find them.

But alas, now I do know where the name "pretender" came from: you instigate, then "pretender" your innocence and then mouth your version of the Checkers speech. Integrity's offering his assistance on these types of matters. I suggest you contact him:





http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f12/fix-your-broken-352145/

 

[Bagels]

On second thought, I do have better things to do with my time. To those who participate here respectfully, God bless and take care.

 

[pretender]

I've respectively addressed your counter assertions. On multiple occasions, you launched personal attacks against me -- when I suggested you stop, you gave me your version of the Checkers speech. My positions, then my character, were attacked multiple times within this thread. I responded to each respectfully, but they kept coming. A volunteer moderator even "liked" one. I am human, and to think that at that point I'm not going to express myself stronger is simply naive.


You've yet to identify a situation in which I responded to an assertion with an unsolicited "passive-aggressive" response. You've twisted some of my comments out of character -- e.g. I told the person I was happy Ramsey worked for him, but that doesn't mean he'll for for everybody, as the person suggested. Furthermore, that person earlier was explicit (and I'm paraphrasing) that Cheryl should ban me and others from the forums "for lacking common sense" -- and by "lacking common sense," he meant disagreeing with his opinions.

I do provide references for my assertions. In a classic example that illustrates a minority of posters like yourself on these forums: earlier this week, a poster reminded the forum that work shoes can be written off from their taxes. I provided a link to the IRS website that was explicit that clothing that can reasonably be worn outside the workplace, even if dedicated for work, was not eligible for deduction. I pointed out that while I could care less what people do & do not write off on their taxes, I would share facts with those who would otherwise be mislead. Of course, several responses came back 'I don't care what the IRS says, I say they're eligible so they're eligible!!!' Step back for a minute... do you see the silliness in that? While I share things that "I've copied from an Internet search," I did have the knowledge on what they were & where to find them.

But alas, now I do know where the name "pretender" came from: you instigate, then "pretender" your innocence and then mouth your version of the Checkers speech. Integrity's offering his assistance on these types of matters. I suggest you contact him:

http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f12/fix-your-broken-352145/

Well, since you insist on rewriting history, it is easy enough for anyone to look through our past postings and see who is insulting whom.

My first encounter with you was in late April, posts 182 and 183 under Tentative Agreement. I expressed my concern that under the new proposed unified plan, that out of pocket expenses could surpass the $4680 UPS wanted to maintain previous coverage. I also stated that I was open to hear the details of the new plan. No attacks or insults. I will admit, your response that retiree benefits were the least of your concerns, rubbed me the wrong way--especially when you accuse me of selling out the part timers. How did that advance the discussion topic? In later posts you state that driving a package car is menial work--So, the snide remarks began with you. I held off responding in kind, for a long time--I even posted that you were an intelligent guy, and that we would have to agree to "somewhat" disagree. Ironically, I agree with many of your opinions--specifically, the writing off of shoes on your tax return.

The only thing that can be construed as a personal attack, would be my remark that I was not surprised that you had knowledge in the area of wine selection. I made that statement in the context of your expertise in so many areas, and your admission that you do not need to study much. So, your statement of having knowledge in the area just struck me as funny. You took it as being accused of having a drinking problem, so for that I apologize.

 

[The Milkman]

Well, since you insist on rewriting history, it is easy enough for anyone to look through our past postings and see who is insulting whom.

My first encounter with you was in late April, posts 182 and 183 under Tentative Agreement. I expressed my concern that under the new proposed unified plan, that out of pocket expenses could surpass the $4680 UPS wanted to maintain previous coverage. I also stated that I was open to hear the details of the new plan. No attacks or insults. I will admit, your response that retiree benefits were the least of your concerns, rubbed me the wrong way--especially when you accuse me of selling out the part timers. How did that advance the discussion topic? In later posts you state that driving a package car is menial work--So, the snide remarks began with you. I held off responding in kind, for a long time--I even posted that you were an intelligent guy, and that we would have to agree to "somewhat" disagree. Ironically, I agree with many of your opinions--specifically, the writing off of shoes on your tax return.

The only thing that can be construed as a personal attack, would be my remark that I was not surprised that you had knowledge in the area of wine selection. I made that statement in the context of your expertise in so many areas, and your admission that you do not need to study much. So, your statement of having knowledge in the area just struck me as funny. You took it as being accused of having a drinking problem, so for that I apologize.

 

[cosmo1]

The bright spot is that now that BC is in need of a resident know-it-all, maybe Dave will come back.

​At least he wasn't quite so bombastic.

 

[pretender]

The bright spot is that now that BC is in need of a resident know-it-all, maybe Dave will come back.

​At least he wasn't quite so bombastic.

One thing I liked about Dave is that he could "take a licking and keep on ticking". For the MOST part, he would dust himself off after an insult/attack, and simply restate his point.

 

[pretender]

So I guess they lied about what we were told we would get upon retirement? And when I retired I knew that at age 65 I would no longer have them..I knew that also, never expected lifetime benefits. How would you feel if someone double crossed you? Have you ever had someone go back on their word to you? I was well paid while a driver, yes we made good money, yes I helped make this company into the Global Giant it is today, yes I endured tons of crap daily like we all did, only to have my efforts for over 25 yrs to help this company Grow..... Then to have my benefit pkg whittled Down.. Yeah....that's fair... I guess they could not wait for me to turn 65?

Maybe we were naive that the UPS where we started our careers is the same company from where we retired. I understand the need to look at the cost of retirement benefits, but it seems as though the fair way would be to limit any proposed increase to future retirees. By the same token, the UPS/IBT pension payments are being increased, but I don't feel as though I am entitled to the higher amount...

 

[Bagels]

Well, since you insist on rewriting history, it is easy enough for anyone to look through our past postings and see who is insulting whom.

My first encounter with you was in late April, posts 182 and 183 under Tentative Agreement. I expressed my concern that under the new proposed unified plan, that out of pocket expenses could surpass the $4680 UPS wanted to maintain previous coverage. I also stated that I was open to hear the details of the new plan. No attacks or insults. I will admit, your response that retiree benefits were the least of your concerns, rubbed me the wrong way--especially when you accuse me of selling out the part timers. How did that advance the discussion topic? In later posts you state that driving a package car is menial work--So, the snide remarks began with you. I held off responding in kind, for a long time--I even posted that you were an intelligent guy, and that we would have to agree to "somewhat" disagree. Ironically, I agree with many of your opinions--specifically, the writing off of shoes on your tax return.

The only thing that can be construed as a personal attack, would be my remark that I was not surprised that you had knowledge in the area of wine selection. I made that statement in the context of your expertise in so many areas, and your admission that you do not need to study much. So, your statement of having knowledge in the area just struck me as funny. You took it as being accused of having a drinking problem, so for that I apologize.

I have asked for my account to be deleted, but I decided to respond to your ongoing Checker's speech for my own satisfaction: based on your own statements, which have been paraphrased in your favor, you admit that you made an assertion, I responded with my own, and then you attacked me personally (to the point in which a moderator edited your post) because you disagreed with what I wrote. I wrote that the economics of the contract were fair (I had other issues with it); UPSers will be compensated well for menial work. You took exception to me describing the work as menial... even though it requires no previous experience, people are trained in days and similar jobs pay a fraction of the wage - hence meeting the definition of menial. (For the record, when I was 20, I had never driven a van nor a manual transmission and my manager allowed me to drive around the yard for several days until I got the hang of it ... I began seasonal driving days after turning 21.) "Nobody can or wants to do the job I do... except for those contract feeder drivers doing it for half the wage and without the benefits. And those tens of thousands of PTers. And those tens of thousands of off-the-street applicants."

I do take exception with the FTers & retirees on here encouraging PTers to join them in "unity" and "brotherhood" in fighting such a poor contract... when really the FTers and retirees (if they could vote) would vote YES if a tentative contract doubled their wages & benefits at the expense of stripping PTers'. That's manipulation, not unity nor brotherhood.

Given the support those who have expressed their desire for me to exit have received, I agree it's best I do so.

 

[The Milkman]

Maybe we were naive that the UPS where we started our careers is the same company from where we retired. I understand the need to look at the cost of retirement benefits, but it seems as though the fair way would be to limit any proposed increase to future retirees. By the same token, the UPS/IBT pension payments are being increased, but I don't feel as though I am entitled to the higher amount...

I agree..No I never would of thought of any increases to come my way, buy at least limit the increases like you said..That is fair...eventually they boot us out at 65 anyway..........

 

[Socrates]

Given the support those who have expressed their desire for me to exit have received, I agree it's best I do so.

Bro, I've been doing this internet-arguing thing for over a decade now, and the only thing I've learned is, no matter how nice or informative you are, if people don't agree with you, 93% of them (on average) are going to insult you, mock you, use stupid pictures/emojis, accuse you of "taking things too seriously", accuse you of logical fallacies (that clearly you didn't commit), etc etc......basically, do everything but fight knowledge with knowledge. Of the other 7%, about 6% of them will keep their cool for 2-3 lengthy exchanges, then fall into the same habits as the other 93%. And the other 1% doesn't really exist, and is more me holding out hope than anything. It's probably more like .2%, if that.

The days of the internet being full of hipsters only are long....loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong gone. Literally everyone is online these days, including both the high school bullies, and the kids who got picked on by them, who now think it's OK to bully other people if they can get away with it. Take appearance/stuttering/clothing/status/accent/etc out of the equation, and it's even worse. The internet has become the world's worst place to have a logical discussion.

The only thing it's good for? Posterity. I saw your posts days after the fact, and was somewhat in awe of someone who is....was.....can't believe I'm even saying this.....but kinda like me. Weirdest feeling in the world. I normally don't relate to people online (anymore, for the reasons explained above), because I normally just lurk unless I see someone completely overstepping their bounds. And this thread/board is full of those people.

But, uh, yeah. What was my point? That if you don't stick around, not only are the current conversations just an emotional circle-jerk, but posterity is dead. Don't stick around for yourself; stick around for the people who DON'T post, who actually get good information from you. The attacks from the others, use them as an opportunity to sharpen your sword. There's really no downside to you, unless you allow it to be.



To say something on-topic: I worked PT for 5+ years before becoming a driver, and yeah, PTers get shafted. My first peak season, I was giving money to my helper for gas even though I was "only" making about 2x what he was. If/when I'm making 3-4x what they are, I can't wait to be able to buy them some really cool stuff (PS4/5?) for a job well done in those few weeks we have together. Same goes for my Preloader, once I stop being a cover driver and get my own route.

In the meantime, yeah, we're way overpaid. That's just reality. The other PT job I worked while working at UPS worked me just as hard, just differently. I ALWAYS had something on my table lined up to do while there was downtime. I wasn't simply allowed to sit around and do nothing. When they worked my mind for 4-6+ hours/day, then I worked another 4-5 hours, I went home *less* tired as I do now after driving for 9 hours. And I didn't get nearly the benefits there as I did at UPS.

Again, most of you should think strongly about that UPS Statue thing I said earlier. It will create good mojo, and maybe get you to up your United Way donation from the .2% of your salary you're currently contributing. Cheapos.

 

[Squint]

Bro, I've been doing this internet-arguing thing for over a decade now, and the only thing I've learned is, no matter how nice or informative you are, if people don't agree with you, 93% of them (on average) are going to insult you, mock you, use stupid pictures/emojis, accuse you of "taking things too seriously", accuse you of logical fallacies (that clearly you didn't commit), etc etc......basically, do everything but fight knowledge with knowledge. Of the other 7%, about 6% of them will keep their cool for 2-3 lengthy exchanges, then fall into the same habits as the other 93%. And the other 1% doesn't really exist, and is more me holding out hope than anything. It's probably more like .2%, if that.

The days of the internet being full of hipsters only are long....loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong gone. Literally everyone is online these days, including both the high school bullies, and the kids who got picked on by them, who now think it's OK to bully other people if they can get away with it. Take appearance/stuttering/clothing/status/accent/etc out of the equation, and it's even worse. The internet has become the world's worst place to have a logical discussion.

The only thing it's good for? Posterity. I saw your posts days after the fact, and was somewhat in awe of someone who is....was.....can't believe I'm even saying this.....but kinda like me. Weirdest feeling in the world. I normally don't relate to people online (anymore, for the reasons explained above), because I normally just lurk unless I see someone completely overstepping their bounds. And this thread/board is full of those people.

But, uh, yeah. What was my point? That if you don't stick around, not only are the current conversations just an emotional circle-jerk, but posterity is dead. Don't stick around for yourself; stick around for the people who DON'T post, who actually get good information from you. The attacks from the others, use them as an opportunity to sharpen your sword. There's really no downside to you, unless you allow it to be.



To say something on-topic: I worked PT for 5+ years before becoming a driver, and yeah, PTers get shafted. My first peak season, I was giving money to my helper for gas even though I was "only" making about 2x what he was. If/when I'm making 3-4x what they are, I can't wait to be able to buy them some really cool stuff (PS4/5?) for a job well done in those few weeks we have together. Same goes for my Preloader, once I stop being a cover driver and get my own route.

In the meantime, yeah, we're way overpaid. That's just reality. The other PT job I worked while working at UPS worked me just as hard, just differently. I ALWAYS had something on my table lined up to do while there was downtime. I wasn't simply allowed to sit around and do nothing. When they worked my mind for 4-6+ hours/day, then I worked another 4-5 hours, I went home *less* tired as I do now after driving for 9 hours. And I didn't get nearly the benefits there as I did at UPS.

Again, most of you should think strongly about that UPS Statue thing I said earlier. It will create good mojo, and maybe get you to up your United Way donation from the .2% of your salary you're currently contributing. Cheapos.

I was hooked on your post until the very last word.