To: The Most Honorable BUG Question from your Video

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by The Real Jack RyanMI6, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. The Real Jack RyanMI6

    The Real Jack RyanMI6 Active Member

    BUG: First to be fair you state your not advocating a yes or a no yote fair enough.
    Just wondering if you were aware of the UAW's fight against two tier wages in the Big Three autio companies. They installed a two tier system in a time of financial crisis and faught to remove the two tier in a time of financial stability. It seems as if we the Teamsters are doing the Opposite fighting for a two tier pay system in a time of financial stability? Your Thoughts!
     
  2. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    As profit margins decrease you run into a financial crisis.
     
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  3. The Real Jack RyanMI6

    The Real Jack RyanMI6 Active Member

    I am not one to put words in others mouths, so your saying in your opinion UPS's profit margins have reached a point of financial crisis? Hopefully you understand that margins are affected by CapEx and that is at all time highs due to the upgrades to existing facilities and the building of newer automation. The additional equipment, trucks planes etc.. in UPSs words there putting their money into these things by choice and because of those choices your saying we need to have. Two tier system?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
  4. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt


    Your thread title kind of threw me, as I haven't personally made any videos.

    I'm assuming it was the one as a rebuttal to Tyler Binders' videos ?


    As far as your question, we've had 2-tier wages since 1982.

    Ron Carey upped the ante in 1997 with the concessionary 2-tier 22.3 jobs.

    Comparing the auto industry to UPS.... is apples to oranges, in my opinion.


    The majority of the "vote no" crowd (again, in my opinion) only harp on the "the company

    is making record profits" and don't have any experience in negotiating Teamster contracts.

    The company is making money, for sure. We want them to. You only have to look as far as

    Roadway and Yellow Freight, to be able to glean some perspective. For that matter, CF.


    Their "vote no" crowd had a rallying cry.

    "Vote no and shut them down. I was looking for a job when I came here !"

    Ask.... and you shall receive.


    UPS members, historically, always have a low voter turn-out.

    I can't call it at this point, but the constant "vote no" bombardment on social media and even

    this forum.... is not helping their uninformed cause. People are growing weary of it.



    -Bug-


    * As an aside.... your thread topic and question was polite and respectful. *

    (I would have answered it anyway.... but I appreciate it) ;)
     
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  5. Tony Q

    Tony Q Well-Known Member

    I respect that you have patrolled this site for so long and your patience. I don't understand how you do it. You answer was spot on. Bravo
     
  6. Benben

    Benben Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!

    Explain yourself please. Just because you said it is so does not make it the truth! The Auto industry's 2 tier wage structure is NOT comparing apples to oranges, it is very salient to the topic at hand! your opinion is way off base!

    Here's the facts "brother", we lose money with this contract! The minuscule increase in pay does NOT EVEN BEGIN TO COVER INFLATION! I still have to feed my family and cloth my kids.
    As far as your digression of running to the all compressing rebuttal of "blah blah you haven't negotiated a contract before, blah blah..." Your right, we have not but we would not have allowed discipline because of some report printed out the next morning by someone unable to do my job at the level I work at. We would have seen from the outset that they will advance loads and hold back loads in order to work the second class drivers more and "starve" out the current seniority drivers more while hiding behind, "if work is available." We would have seen the language contractually allowing them to use scabs and coyotes!

    I mean no offense to you but I don't see any "negotiating" in this contract done on my behalf. I see everything as pretty much status quo from the previous contract. Just about the same dollar figures, (don't give me that crap about PT wage increases. That is being driven by minimum wage increases in cities across the country and the fact that PTers can make more $ flipping burgers at McDonald's at 1/2 the work load) Same progressions, A little more to pensions (only if we can make it 30 years without our bodies being broken) And the company can now bring in a second class driver to replace me and contractually take my work!



    Not if the Union actually was working in my best interest. The majority of us feel like we are being stabbed in the back by those we pay to represent us!

    "uniformed cause" Explain yourself! You have said numerous times you have not advocated for or against the contract. Your statement right there belies your previous words unless I am misunderstanding you!
     
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  7. The Real Jack RyanMI6

    The Real Jack RyanMI6 Active Member

    Your welcome, yes i was talking about your rebuttal to Tyler. While i may have a different outlook and opinion, my backround is in history, business, banking, and the financial sector. I have served with and had to present to heads of financial institutions as well leadership in medium size business in large metro areas. Ive been tutored by efficiency experts in the medical field. So UPS is not my first rodeo. Im here by choice hard for me to believe at times. i am greatly impressed at the time and effort any steward or local union officer puts in to addressing UPS. The company is truly one i would not wish on most anyone without Union representation. So to you and all the others who serve thank you truly, even when we disagree its amazing to me the sacrifice of you both you and your family's give.
     
  8. PT Car Washer

    PT Car Washer Well-Known Member

    Wow. What happened to you. I mean after all of your other accomplishments, you have been reduced to pushing cardboard for a living.
     
  9. bowhnterdon

    bowhnterdon Active Member

    Throw up....
     
  10. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Well-Known Member

    Even as someone who is voting no, i can appreciate your opinion, as it is backed up with real facts and numbers.

    most opinions i hear on the BC, seem to be based off of conjecture.
     
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  11. silenze

    silenze Lunch is the best part of the day

    who in their right mind allows unlimited subcontracting and only training 100 drivers by dec 2019?
    its not just 22.4 that is a bad deal. it is everything.
     
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  12. DELACROIX

    DELACROIX In the Spirit of Honore' Daumier

    Are you seriously claiming that most of those who oppose this contract are "uninformed", I see the exact opposite. We just went through a informational black out with the negotiating process, it was the intention of the current leadership to make us as you stated as "uninformed" as possible. I personally would not say I am "uninformed" that would be the young new hire part time voters who they are targeting to get this concessionary contract passed.

    I do not know about you but I smell weakness and fear on the part of the those who were on Union's Negotiating Committees from those who posted on this site that claimed to be on. Their "closed shop" references are fear mongering plain and simple to scare the unsure ones who have misgivings and concerns about this contract to vote yes out of fear of losing their jobs. Just study history and agree that those who use fear and intimidation to control the masses generally suffer the consequences of their actions big time.

    Inform us if you can..if we vote this contract down what will happen. Will the company close shop and run scabs in all their operations or will they go back to the negotiating table and work it out.
     
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  13. wide load

    wide load Starting wage is a waste of time.

    Part time spurs got a $3 raise per hour.
     
  14. 1989

    1989 Well-Known Member

    The spurs compete every year.
     
  15. PT Car Washer

    PT Car Washer Well-Known Member

    Most new hires, when you consider bonus, are making $15 to $20/hr right now. Most will quit if they go down to $13/hr.
     
  16. The Real Jack RyanMI6

    The Real Jack RyanMI6 Active Member

    Choices my friend, one not taken lightly. Truth be told I can add a lot however the simplest explanation is for the love of a woman. That being said she took one read of the contract and said, "So whats your next career, do you want to stay with labor and go for say an electricly engineering, or chiropractor. Haven't decided yet if the next 5 years turns out the way a few have predicted on here, RPCD'S at 40 hours and 22.4s working the rest ill have time to finish my MBA in Finance and go from there. Wasn't looking at moving on when i got here, however the reasons she and i decided not only on UPS but to move to our present home are all but gone. So this actually happened at an interesting time for me personally. Ive still have friends who wook as CIOs of several companies and maybe ill go that direction into tech. One fight at a time. First a lesson i learned years ago when i traveled in bussines. As soon as you get to your hotel unpack. If your there for a day, week, or month your at home. Thus, untill She and I decide otherwise ive unpacked, UPS is my home. Thats all i will say about that, im not opening healed wounds between Her and I. We've made peace with our decision you sll should to and move on.
     
  17. PT Car Washer

    PT Car Washer Well-Known Member

    Really none of my business and I hope things turn out the best for you and the Mrs. At least you have options. Most of us here are stuck for better or worse. My other option is retirement but I enjoy my work for now.
     
  18. UNINFORMED VOTE NO POSTERS....

    What garbage @BigUnionGuy.

    We had our local union contract meeting about a month ago and members asked many questions about proposed language and the BA who is also the PO of our local said he would get right back to them on the answers to their questions.

    To date, we haven't heard a word.

    Let's just blame the members, @Tony Q , this is for you as well you sell out.

    We're all just dumb truck drivers.
    That's why I'm Sickofit.
     
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  19. Box Ox

    Box Ox Well-Known Member

    You must hve some sort of political agenda!
     
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  20. Not to go insane. I keep it simple.
     
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