To those who accuse hall of "selling us out"...

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by soberups, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    1. Read the details of the offer in its entirety, including the non-economic language, and then make your choice. If you dont feel its a fair offer, then by all means vote "no."

    2. Bear in mind that ultimately we will only get the agreement that (a) a majority of the work group will actually be willing go on strike for, (b)that the company believes that we will go on strike for (c) that hall and Hoffa believe we will go on strike for and (d) that hall and Hoffa believe that the company believes that we will go out on strike for. Talk is cheap, going on strike costs money.

    3. The agreement covers 250,000 Teamsters of varying job classifications all over the United States. Not everyone will be 100% satisfied with it.

    4. Todays job market sucks, the economy is still struggling to gain momentum, and health care costs continue to rise owing to factors beyond the control of either the company or the Union. Trying to divine what will happen to healthcare in the near future is more art than science.

    5. Ask yourself "what motivation would hall and Hoffa have to intentionally screw over the membership that elected them?". Put aside any biases you might have against them personally and analyze the offer on its own merits. Unfortunately, it seems as though there are people on this forum who would bash Hoffa even if he invented a cure for cancer. Its getting old. Is this deal all it is being made out to be by the union? Probably not. Is this deal the total ripoff for the membership that it is being made out to be by TDU? Probably not. The truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.
  2. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    Very well stated. While we're getting $0.10 less total in raises under this contract, I'm more than willing to trade a dime over 5 years to raise the starting pay for PT new hires. Even if hall got us $2/hr raises every year over five years, we would still have drivers complaining about being forced to take their lunches and UPS not having a 401K match.
  3. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    The UPSers that come on BC is a small part of the total voting union membership.
    They tend to be more activist in nature.

    I think the contract will be approved with 81% of the vote on the first vote.

    As an aside, look at all the people who come on here bashing UPS which supplies everyone on this site with their livelihood and well above average pay and wealth. It's just human nature for some to be negative and find wrong in what others do ... no matter how much they have benefitted from the efforts of others while their biggest contribution is just "punching in" everyday and doing their job.
  4. rudy5150

    rudy5150 Active Member

    Whos got the correct info ? " In the UPS tentative agreement, workers will get substantial pay raises, including a significant increase in the starting wage rate for part-time employees. " thats from that means just new hires got good bump in pay not the current part timers....that would be a total sellout a definite no vote for sure!!!!!!
    But TDU says "The IBT is reporting that part-timers will get a “substantial” pay increase including an increase in the starting wage rate for part-timers which was falling behind minimum wage in a growing number of areas. "

    Anyone have any info?????????????????????
  5. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    That depends entirely upon the definition of the word "activist"; I was told UPS tried to slip in a two-tier wage scheme earlier this week that would basically see current UPS drivers maintain and improve their pay while capping the pay levels for those being promoted after ratification. Obviously, the union did not and would not agree to this, but if we saw $1-$1.50 raises across the board for 5 years while hypothetically capping new driver pay in the neighborhood of $20-24/hr.. let's just say I would not want to see a ratification vote on that.

    Granted, this was an instance of UPS throwing :censored2::censored2::censored2::censored2: against the wall to see if it would stick and the union knows this would essentially be dealing an enormous self-inflicted blow to any measure of solidarity for the next generation of drivers. But there are a great deal (many but not all) of current union members that would sell out their younger brothers or the "unborn" for short-term gain. Personally, as a current PT'er with almost a decade under my belt and another 4 or 5 years (hopefully) to go FT, I am more than happy to trade a dime over five years ($4.00 in raises '08-'13 vs. $3.90 in raises for '13-'18) for an increase in starting pay for PT'ers.
  6. Bubblehead

    Bubblehead My Senior Picture

    What I see reminds me a lot of what happened in the last contract.
    Central States, once again, needs to be bailed out and again at the expense of UPS Teamsters.
    Last time it was the pension fund, this time it's the health care fund.
    With declining membership and increasing beneficiaries, Central States is again looking to right the ship on our backs.
    I think all of the pageantry of the past few months was a well orchestrated rouse, by both union and company, leading to last nights announcement.
    I haven't read the offer yet, but feel like I've seen this "movie" before.
    It's deja vu all over again.
  7. balland chain

    balland chain Member

    Yup, I guess the crooks at Central states put their hands in the cookie jar and went on a wonderful vacation on our dime.. I am appalled that the Union did it again.. I wonder if the trustees of Central states are planning a big event for Hoffa and hall , i.e. $$$ for sticking us with central states. Only for UPS to give them a ton a cash, and central states to deny, deny deny our medical claims.. This whole thing makes me sick !!! I just called my local to speak to the lady who handles health and pension to see if there is a supplement I can purchase since central states will not pay the claims that I have filed. Those claims were accompanied with a letter from two Doctors stating I needed this treatment.. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!
  8. Overpaid Union Thug

    Overpaid Union Thug Well-Known Member

    I would have accepted a 401-k match instead of a raise.
  9. Anonymously

    Anonymously New Member

    BandC I feel bad for you. Ten years ago I went on this magical journey in which my body at the age of twenty four decided it would be AMAZING to have cancer four times over the course of nine months. If I wasn't on the health plan that I was on at the time, a procedure I had done more than likely wouldn't be available to me even though that one procedure halted the cancer. The procedure is called an RPLND, and it very expensive and requires about a week to two week hospital stay post op. In 2003 the total bill for that one procedure was over $500k. If the new insurance they are offering has any holes in it, I am afraid to even imagine what someones options will be financially if they have the same problems as I did and the rumor that you are on the hook for 20% are true. I am waiting and hoping that those rumors are just that, rumors, and we have amazing coverage from now til the end of our days, and beyond that.
  10. Anonymously

    Anonymously New Member

    So would I, Big Arrow. Currently slamming 15% into my 401k. Once the wife gets a better fulltime gig that will be 20%. I still know guys who are fulltime who won't contribute because they want a new jetski or upgrade their car or some sort of toy to play with.
  11. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt

    Insurance doesn't pay for everything.

    Usually.... Only what medically necessary.

    Ask Chaz Bono.

  12. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    Chaz could've got it for free if he was in jail!!!
  13. rudy5150

    rudy5150 Active Member

    As a current part timer this makes me sick.. sold out again by hoffa and hall....less of a raise that last contract! PATHETIC
  14. wilberforce15

    wilberforce15 Member

    I'm as firm against the selling out of part-timers as anybody, but I think we need to wait, Rudy, until we see what one-time raise there is based on the new starting rate. I'm assuming that if the starting rate goes up by, say, $1.50, then all PTers will get that $1.50.

    Of course, it should be that bump plus a higher annual raise for PTers, but it may not be as bad as you think.
  15. rudy5150

    rudy5150 Active Member

    I hope your right but i think they would have stated a raise for all part timers but that wasnt said.
  16. balland chain

    balland chain Member

    Oh yeah, we currently have to pay 20 % of the entire bill, plus our copay.. and as I have posted, that 20% is off the GRand total BEFORE Central states applies their discount...I am still paying some of my medical bills off.. I am sick about all this contract stuff.. And I have written several letters to DC about this so called medical care, and yet again, we are stuck with CS.. Those of you that have been lucky enough to NOT have central states, go to all your doctors now before this contract goes thru.. I am still shaking my head in disgust...
  17. balland chain

    balland chain Member

  18. DiligentUPSer

    DiligentUPSer Member

    This is a quote from one of the press releases with regard to part-timers:

    "part-timers will get a 'substantial' pay increase including an increase in the starting wage rate for part-timers"

    This, to me, sounds like in addition to the increased starting wage, there will be a "catch up" raise for part-timers. THE QUESTION IS: How far does this "catch up raise" extend among the ranks of part-timers? Will it only be for those who are currently in the four year progression as others have speculated or does it extend beyond that to people making a certain amount or with a certain amount of years (like 10 years for example)? It would be hard for me to imagine UPS giving out an extra $1 catch up raise to ALL of it's current part-timers. What is that? 140,000 part-timers? I am hoping it's all part-timers, as I have 8 and a half years in and that extra catch up raise would be nice, but I'm not optimistic.

    It will be interesting to see which way this goes. I'll need to see all the details of the contract before I make my judgment, but I'll be satisfied if this new healthcare is similar to our current healthcare, albeit now being administered by the union.
  19. Inthegame

    Inthegame Well-Known Member

    Something doesn't fit here. The CS C-6 plan has a $200 yearly deductible with a $1000 max yearly out of pocket. Even if one hit those limits it's far less than the $90 per week ($4680 yr) co-premium UPS wanted that hall vowed pt's wouldn't pay. If you went out of network that may be an issue but how it that the fault of anyone but you? Paying a weekly premium when most pt's seek little medical would be disastrous and wipe out most pt's. So what's your issue with hall?
  20. smart girl

    smart girl New Member

    We dont want to go backwards. We also want to work 9 hrs not13