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TonyQ's True Intentions
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<blockquote data-quote="zubenelgenubi" data-source="post: 3663144" data-attributes="member: 63706"><p>Ok, blocked out 2 hr chunk of time? Check.</p><p></p><p>Sucker for lost causes and fighting pointless battles? Check.</p><p></p><p>You got me, here we go...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I did read it. Everything that applies to me that isn't a concession is just shy of or at maintaining what I have. I repeat, if it were just a maintenance contract, I would be happy.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's all I need... Life lessons from you.</p><p>I repeat, bully for them. </p><p>I got screwed the same as everyone before me got screwed as each contract gave more concessions. The difference is I am now being retroactively screwed as well. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars over four years, only an idiot wouldn't be upset about that. If the new drivers got increases in progression equal to inflation, that would be as good a deal as I got, which would still put them ahead in one sense, because they wouldn't be getting screwed by comparison like I was screwed by comparison to the drivers before me. I'm ok with them getting inflationary increases, so how does that mean I want them to get screwed?</p><p></p><p>If the money is desperately needed elsewhere, why not take it from here?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The first I heard anything about negotiations starting was May. If it was earlier than that, please, do enlighten me. That's all I'm seeking. Show me where I am wrong. Straw man arguments and ad hominem aren't helping.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why do I need to? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All I'm saying is if I were performing as badly as they are, I would be fired. If you think I'm suggesting the union should be fired, that speaks more to your thinking than mine. Replace the negotiators with better ones maybe?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's what I'm trying to find out. They're telling me it's a great contract, but refuse to explain how or why it is. So either they're wrong, or they're hiding something. Plenty of people are asking the same, perfectly reasonable questions, and being met with deflection and stonewalling. Maybe I have bad sources, that's why I'm asking for enlightenment because I really do want to make an informed decision. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I've read what's available. I believe I understand it, and I have put in due dilligence to discuss it with others to make sure I understand it correctly. I'm still being told I don't understand it, so I am asking for guidance, and I am only being met with insults, innuendo, condescension and fallacy. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm just seeking answers, I may have criticized the negotiators for what I think is a bad job, if that constitutes bashing the union, oh well.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think so. It's more complicated than just simple negotiation. They are negotiating on our behalf, and it seems like they are negotiating on their own behalf. If I'm wrong about that, that's what I want to know. I know when you negotiate you give and take, from my perspective it seems like we're giving a lot, and not getting much in return, and what we are getting isn't as good as the union wants us to think it is. Maybe the negotiating team needs lessons in negotiation? Agency law requires an agent to act in your interest as if it were their own. I want to know how my agents think what they are doing is in my interest, and a lack of an answer is usually a bad sign.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm a <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/group2/censored.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":censored3:" title="Censored :censored3:" data-shortname=":censored3:" /> dues paying member, that's what gives me the right! What gives them the right to refuse to answer?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is something I did not know. Finally a small nugget of useful information. Everything I've read says we're just waiting to wrap up regional negotiations, then it goes out to a vote. I've heard mentions of two man meetings, but I didn't realize that the locals could reject the proposal. I would hope that it is obvious that if the language changed, I/we would have to look at the changes and adjust my/our opinions accordingly. It should be equally obvious that the objections are over the current TA, not some hypothetical future version. If we don't inform ourselves, and voice our opinions how is the hypothetical future version supposed to come to be? If no one objects, the leaders would have to assume everyone is ok with it how it is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Gee, thanks mister!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So which is it? Read the information? Or wait and see? If I read the information, didn't like what I read, discussed it with others, talked to my BA about my concerns, isn't that what would be expected of an active, participating member? I'm doing everything I know to do. I'm still being told that I'm wrong, but no one seems to be able to explain to me why I am wrong. Without any further, useful information I am forced to conclude that I am right.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="zubenelgenubi, post: 3663144, member: 63706"] Ok, blocked out 2 hr chunk of time? Check. Sucker for lost causes and fighting pointless battles? Check. You got me, here we go... I did read it. Everything that applies to me that isn't a concession is just shy of or at maintaining what I have. I repeat, if it were just a maintenance contract, I would be happy. That's all I need... Life lessons from you. I repeat, bully for them. I got screwed the same as everyone before me got screwed as each contract gave more concessions. The difference is I am now being retroactively screwed as well. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars over four years, only an idiot wouldn't be upset about that. If the new drivers got increases in progression equal to inflation, that would be as good a deal as I got, which would still put them ahead in one sense, because they wouldn't be getting screwed by comparison like I was screwed by comparison to the drivers before me. I'm ok with them getting inflationary increases, so how does that mean I want them to get screwed? If the money is desperately needed elsewhere, why not take it from here? The first I heard anything about negotiations starting was May. If it was earlier than that, please, do enlighten me. That's all I'm seeking. Show me where I am wrong. Straw man arguments and ad hominem aren't helping. Why do I need to? All I'm saying is if I were performing as badly as they are, I would be fired. If you think I'm suggesting the union should be fired, that speaks more to your thinking than mine. Replace the negotiators with better ones maybe? That's what I'm trying to find out. They're telling me it's a great contract, but refuse to explain how or why it is. So either they're wrong, or they're hiding something. Plenty of people are asking the same, perfectly reasonable questions, and being met with deflection and stonewalling. Maybe I have bad sources, that's why I'm asking for enlightenment because I really do want to make an informed decision. I've read what's available. I believe I understand it, and I have put in due dilligence to discuss it with others to make sure I understand it correctly. I'm still being told I don't understand it, so I am asking for guidance, and I am only being met with insults, innuendo, condescension and fallacy. I'm just seeking answers, I may have criticized the negotiators for what I think is a bad job, if that constitutes bashing the union, oh well. I don't think so. It's more complicated than just simple negotiation. They are negotiating on our behalf, and it seems like they are negotiating on their own behalf. If I'm wrong about that, that's what I want to know. I know when you negotiate you give and take, from my perspective it seems like we're giving a lot, and not getting much in return, and what we are getting isn't as good as the union wants us to think it is. Maybe the negotiating team needs lessons in negotiation? Agency law requires an agent to act in your interest as if it were their own. I want to know how my agents think what they are doing is in my interest, and a lack of an answer is usually a bad sign. I'm a :censored3: dues paying member, that's what gives me the right! What gives them the right to refuse to answer? This is something I did not know. Finally a small nugget of useful information. Everything I've read says we're just waiting to wrap up regional negotiations, then it goes out to a vote. I've heard mentions of two man meetings, but I didn't realize that the locals could reject the proposal. I would hope that it is obvious that if the language changed, I/we would have to look at the changes and adjust my/our opinions accordingly. It should be equally obvious that the objections are over the current TA, not some hypothetical future version. If we don't inform ourselves, and voice our opinions how is the hypothetical future version supposed to come to be? If no one objects, the leaders would have to assume everyone is ok with it how it is. Gee, thanks mister! So which is it? Read the information? Or wait and see? If I read the information, didn't like what I read, discussed it with others, talked to my BA about my concerns, isn't that what would be expected of an active, participating member? I'm doing everything I know to do. I'm still being told that I'm wrong, but no one seems to be able to explain to me why I am wrong. Without any further, useful information I am forced to conclude that I am right. [/QUOTE]
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