Traffic laws

[oldupsman]

The DUI thread got me thinking. This actually happened to me. Me, Mister Circle of Honor winner. 30 year safe driver.
I still think I'm right but if the forum beats me up I'll take my lumps. Would like to hear your opinion.

On my way in to work. Personal vehicle. 2 lanes north, 2 lanes south. Turning lane in between. So it's a 5 lane highway.
School bus going north. I'm going south. School bus stops far lane going north. This is not a crossroad.
It's a side street. My side of the road is a shopping center. You can guess where this is going. I continue south.
So did 2 cars in front of me, but's that no excuse. I would have continued anyway.
Cop comes out of nowhere and pulls me over. Found out later this was quite a money maker for the local township.
Said I had to stop. I said no, the 5th lane is an impediment. Plus it's not a crossroad.

Well I got a little heated. Not my nature but sometimes things happen.
Long story short, cop tries to throw the book at me. 90 day lost of license, big fine. 6 points on my record.
Get myself a lawyer,take it to court. I got it knocked down to careless driving and 3 points on my license which went
away after a year. No fine. Which tells me something.

Also found out later I wasn't the only one complaining about this. A month after my court hearing I notice the
school bus is now pulling into the side street to pick up the kids instead of stopping out on the 5 lane highway.
Guess they finally pulled over the local big wig or something and things changed. I'm sure it wasn't because of me.

What do you think?

 

[menotyou]

I am not going to beat you up, as you were smart to get a lawyer. But, I would have stopped. I had a friend get hit crossing after she got off the bus. I'm not sure what the legalities are, but I see those yellow lights and my foot heads for the brake.

 

[dilligaf]

I have to respond to this. After driving school buses for 6 years for 2 different school districts here in AZ, I have had many experiences with this sort of thing. In AZ, the public has to stop for school buses on any and all roads with one exception. The law states (at least when I was driving) that if the roadway is divided by a raised (IE-concrete curb) median then traffic going in the opposite direction does not have to stop. It does not matter if the roadway is a 2 lane or 5 lane highway. I had one elementary stop in front of an apartment complex in a single family home subdivision that had a divided 2 lane road with a raised median. The kids would wait for the bus on both sides of the road. After having had some near misses I had the bus stop changed to a side road and the parents were told that all their kids had to be at the new stop. I assume that the stop remains the same to this day.

 

[Brownslave688]

I would of kept driving also your 4 lanes away.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I would have also kept driving. The center turn lane acts as a divider, much like a concrete or striped median.

 

[oldupsman]

I am not going to beat you up, as you were smart to get a lawyer. But, I would have stopped. I had a friend get hit crossing after she got off the bus. I'm not sure what the legalities are, but I see those yellow lights and my foot heads for the brake.

Sorry about your friend. Hope she was okay. But that's my point. I was nowhere near the school bus. And my side of the road was a shopping center.
And would it be safe for children to be crossing a 5 lane highway?

 

[oldupsman]

I would have also kept driving. The center turn lane acts as a divider, much like a concrete or striped median.

That was my lawyer's argument in court. What is the definition of an impediment.

 

[menotyou]

Sorry about your friend. Hope she was okay. But that's my point. I was nowhere near the school bus. And my side of the road was a shopping center.
And would it be safe for children to be crossing a 5 lane highway?

I don't see where you did anything wrong, personally. I see your point about being a safe distance away. I think the town was taking advantage of the law, actually.
As for if I would stop, it was just ingrained in us after that accident. Thank you, by the way.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

What is the definition of an impediment.

In the eyes of UPS management an impediment would be a strong pro-union employee.



I wonder how many accidents occurred on that road due to the uncertainty of whether to stop or go.

 

[dilligaf]

​Ya'll better check your local laws. Best to know for sure, than to get a ticket for not knowing.

 

[want to retire]

Honestly, I don't know...but have wondered. OK. Let's add this to the scenario and see if it changes things. Let's say the kids have to cross all the lanes of the highway to get to the bus(for whatever reason)(a reasonable scenario). You would have to stop, right? I don't think the kids would be on their own to dodge traffic, right? What if it's just two-lane? I know for a fact you better stop with red lights flashing in Texas. So what's the difference in 4? 50 feet?

 

[bluehdmc]

In NJ the law states "divided highway" which would be like Dilligaf said, a raised divider or median strip. I also drove a school bus, didn't have this sort of roadways (4 lanes with turn lane) in my area. A lot of people would drive by on undivided roads that were 4 lanes though. I won't talk about the ones on 2 lane roads, that was a once a day occurence. I think that was more the people "tunnel driving" vision than deliberate.

I can see in the OP's case where the stop was moved. It does sound like a money maker for the town. Where I worked most stops DID NOT have the children cross the street at all unless it was a residential development.

 

[oldupsman]

In the eyes of UPS management an impediment would be a strong pro-union employee.



I wonder how many accidents occurred on that road due to the uncertainty of whether to stop or go.

Well I have always been grateful it didn't happen when I was in a package car. Who knows what hell I would have gone through.
But then I ask myself. If I would have been in the package car would I have been more inclined to stop?
I was always very aware of the P.R. side of UPS.

 

[oldupsman]

Honestly, I don't know...but have wondered. OK. Let's add this to the scenario and see if it changes things. Let's say the kids have to cross all the lanes of the highway to get to the bus(for whatever reason)(a reasonable scenario). You would have to stop, right? I don't think the kids would be on their own to dodge traffic, right? What if it's just two-lane? I know for a fact you better stop with red lights flashing in Texas. So what's the difference in 4? 50 feet?

Well see if it had been a crossroad then that's a legitimate argument. Although still having kids cross a 5 lane highway would be a bad idea.
But it wasn't a crossroad.

 

[dilligaf]

Honestly, I don't know...but have wondered. OK. Let's add this to the scenario and see if it changes things. Let's say the kids have to cross all the lanes of the highway to get to the bus(for whatever reason)(a reasonable scenario). You would have to stop, right? I don't think the kids would be on their own to dodge traffic, right? What if it's just two-lane? I know for a fact you better stop with red lights flashing in Texas. So what's the difference in 4? 50 feet?

Nothing. It's up to the school districts to set up the bus stops. For the most part they do a really good job of doing it but it is also the drivers responsibility to make adjustments where necessary. On a 4-5 lane highway the bus stops should be set up so that the bus stops on each side (going out and coming in). If any individual sees issues with bus stops, they should be reported to the school district.

 

[menotyou]

NYS law says no matter what kind of highway, you must stop.

New York School Bus Laws | eHow.com

 

[dilligaf]

Well I have always been grateful it didn't happen when I was in a package car. Who knows what hell I would have gone through.
But then I ask myself. If I would have been in the package car would I have been more inclined to stop?
I was always very aware of the P.R. side of UPS.

And I have always seen it from the bus drivers POV. If I see people run school bus stops I will try and get a licence plate number. I have little tolerance for S that don't stop.

 

[dilligaf]

Well see if it had been a crossroad then that's a legitimate argument. Although still having kids cross a 5 lane highway would be a bad idea.
But it wasn't a crossroad.

​Crossroads have nothing to do with anything.

 

[oldupsman]

And I have always seen it from the bus drivers POV. If I see people run school bus stops I will try and get a licence plate number. I have little tolerance for S that don't stop.

Well, I certainly agree with you there.

 

[Anonymous 10]

The DUI thread got me thinking. This actually happened to me. Me, Mister Circle of Honor winner. 30 year safe driver.
I still think I'm right but if the forum beats me up I'll take my lumps. Would like to hear your opinion.

On my way in to work. Personal vehicle. 2 lanes north, 2 lanes south. Turning lane in between. So it's a 5 lane highway.
School bus going north. I'm going south. School bus stops far lane going north. This is not a crossroad.
It's a side street. My side of the road is a shopping center. You can guess where this is going. I continue south.
So did 2 cars in front of me, but's that no excuse. I would have continued anyway.
Cop comes out of nowhere and pulls me over. Found out later this was quite a money maker for the local township.
Said I had to stop. I said no, the 5th lane is an impediment. Plus it's not a crossroad.

Well I got a little heated. Not my nature but sometimes things happen.
Long story short, cop tries to throw the book at me. 90 day lost of license, big fine. 6 points on my record.
Get myself a lawyer,take it to court. I got it knocked down to careless driving and 3 points on my license which went
away after a year. No fine. Which tells me something.

Also found out later I wasn't the only one complaining about this. A month after my court hearing I notice the
school bus is now pulling into the side street to pick up the kids instead of stopping out on the 5 lane highway.
Guess they finally pulled over the local big wig or something and things changed. I'm sure it wasn't because of me.

What do you think?

The cop sounds like a real Richard