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<blockquote data-quote="vantexan" data-source="post: 5194934" data-attributes="member: 24302">Causing heavy casualties in the Donbas?&nbsp; The separatists were winning until Trump gave the Ukrainians weapons.&nbsp; Why do you think Putin is in there now?&nbsp; And the separatists are just that.&nbsp; The government in Kiev is the legitimate government.&nbsp; Hawaii can&#039;t up and secede tomorrow.&nbsp; Nor can any of our 50 states.&nbsp; Same principle holds true in Ukraine and other countries.&nbsp; The separatists don&#039;t have sovereignty.&nbsp; The casualties inflicted on them were of their own doing by rebelling and the Ukrainians suffered plenty too. I&#039;ve said numerous times the way the U.S. handled things in the past was wrong.&nbsp; Installing a strongman to run roughshod over a population to keep out communism blew up in their faces.&nbsp; China has made huge inroads in other countries by building infrastructure in exchange for access to commodities.&nbsp; We should&#039;ve done the same.&nbsp; I&#039;ve never said we&#039;re lilly white.&nbsp; But you&#039;re defending a maniac in Russia who&#039;s the root cause of nations wanting to join NATO.&nbsp; Which is their right and wouldn&#039;t be necessary if you didn&#039;t have the leader of a nuclear power opining about the glory days of the Soviet Union and wanting to bring it back.&nbsp; Instead of spending so much of their GDP on their military he ought to be building markets with the West and improving Russian lives.&nbsp; And he ought to have stepped down per the Russian constitution and enforced democracy.&nbsp; Instead he&#039;s an autocratic thug who you&#039;re defending.&nbsp; You&#039;re defending a dictator who has killed political opponents, journalists, even dissidents living abroad.&nbsp; So much so that you&#039;d smear the U.S. as the ultimate evil instead of putting world destabilization right where it belongs, the autocracies of Russia and China.&nbsp; The U.S. isn&#039;t the problem.&nbsp; U.S. leaders taking money from China, Russia, and yes even Ukraine and others are the problem.&nbsp; Fix the rot in Washington, but ultimately that rot is there because of the insidious nature of China and Russia.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="vantexan, post: 5194934, member: 24302"] Causing heavy casualties in the Donbas? The separatists were winning until Trump gave the Ukrainians weapons. Why do you think Putin is in there now? And the separatists are just that. The government in Kiev is the legitimate government. Hawaii can't up and secede tomorrow. Nor can any of our 50 states. Same principle holds true in Ukraine and other countries. The separatists don't have sovereignty. The casualties inflicted on them were of their own doing by rebelling and the Ukrainians suffered plenty too. I've said numerous times the way the U.S. handled things in the past was wrong. Installing a strongman to run roughshod over a population to keep out communism blew up in their faces. China has made huge inroads in other countries by building infrastructure in exchange for access to commodities. We should've done the same. I've never said we're lilly white. But you're defending a maniac in Russia who's the root cause of nations wanting to join NATO. Which is their right and wouldn't be necessary if you didn't have the leader of a nuclear power opining about the glory days of the Soviet Union and wanting to bring it back. Instead of spending so much of their GDP on their military he ought to be building markets with the West and improving Russian lives. And he ought to have stepped down per the Russian constitution and enforced democracy. Instead he's an autocratic thug who you're defending. You're defending a dictator who has killed political opponents, journalists, even dissidents living abroad. So much so that you'd smear the U.S. as the ultimate evil instead of putting world destabilization right where it belongs, the autocracies of Russia and China. The U.S. isn't the problem. U.S. leaders taking money from China, Russia, and yes even Ukraine and others are the problem. Fix the rot in Washington, but ultimately that rot is there because of the insidious nature of China and Russia. [/QUOTE]

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