UPS is trying to steal part of our lunch.

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by Omega man, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Omega man

    Omega man Active Member

    UPS is trying to get drivers to begin their lunch at their last stop or when we break trace from EDD. This would not only be a DOT violation but also would violate Federal Labor Law.

    It is a DOT Hours Of Service Rules violation for UPS to force us to operate our vehicles on part of our lunch hour, even if for only a few minutes. "Breaking trace" would include some amount of driving to and from a lunch location. We our considered “On Duty” for all the time at the controls of our vehicles. UPS is logging us "Off Duty" for our whole lunch hour (our DIAD is our log). UPS is violating the law by under-reporting our “On Duty” time.

    We cannot be forced to take our lunch on trace because UPS does not provide restroom facilities in our vehicles. We have a basic right to be able to drive to a location to use a restroom before eating.

    Federal Law also prevents an employer from forcing anyone to perform any part of his or her job (driving) while on lunch. See Fair Labor Standards Act.

    We should be given a reasonable time and distance to drive to a lunch location and our meal period should start and end there, not somewhere on our route, like our last stop.
    If you are disciplined for this, file a complaint with the DOT or the Department of Labor and watch UPS get fined.

    UPS is simply trying to steal part of our lunch from us.

    Fair Labor Standards Act
    Code of Federal Regulations Pertaining to U.S. Department of Labor
    Title 29
    Chapter V
    Wage and Hour Division, Department of Labor
    Part 785
    Hours Worked
    Subpart C
    Application of Principles

    29 CFR 785.19 - Meal.

    Section Number: 785.19
    Section Name: Meal.

    (a) Bona fide meal periods. Bona fide meal periods are not worktime.
    fide meal periods do not include coffee breaks or time for snacks. These
    are rest periods. The employee must be completely relieved from duty for
    the purposes of eating regular meals. Ordinarily 30 minutes or more is
    long enough for a bona fide meal period. A shorter period may be long
    enough under special conditions. The employee is not relieved if he is
    required to perform any duties, whether active or inactive, while
    eating. For example, an office employee who is required to eat at his
    desk or a factory worker who is required to be at his machine is working
    while eating. (Culkin v. Glenn L. Martin, Nebraska Co., 97 F. Supp. 661
    (D. Neb. 1951), aff'd 197 F. 2d 981 (C.A. 8, 1952), cert. denied 344
    U.S. 888 (1952); Thompson v. Stock & Sons, Inc., 93 F. Supp. 213 (E.D.
    Mich 1950), aff'd 194 F. 2d 493 (C.A. 6, 1952); Biggs v. Joshua Hendy
    Corp., 183 F. 2d 515 (C. A. 9, 1950), 187 F. 2d 447 (C.A. 9, 1951);
    Walling v. Dunbar Transfer & Storage Co., 3 W.H. Cases 284; 7 Labor
    Cases para. 61.565 (W.D. Tenn. 1943); Lofton v. Seneca Coal and Coke
    Co., 2 W.H. Cases 669; 6 Labor Cases para. 61,271 (N.D. Okla. 1942);
    aff'd 136 F. 2d 359 (C.A. 10, 1943); cert. denied 320 U.S. 772 (1943);
    Mitchell v. Tampa Cigar Co., 36 Labor Cases para. 65, 198, 14 W.H. Cases
    38 (S.D. Fla. 1959); Douglass v. Hurwitz Co., 145 F. Supp. 29, 13 W.H.
    Cases (E.D. Pa. 1956))
    (b) Where no permission to leave premises. It is not necessary that
    an employee be permitted to leave the premises if he is otherwise
    completely freed from duties during the meal period.
  2. thanks very good info
  3. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    UPS has always had a policy of trying to screw us out of our lunch.

    In the past, this was accomplished by intentionally rigging the time allowances to be about one hour behind the actual time needed to complete the route, and then dispatching based upon those false allowances in order to pressure the driver into working off of the clock in order to "make scratch".

    Telematics is just a new and updated version of this management mentality.

    The solution will be to document your time, document when and why you "broke trace", and be willing to file a grievance and endure some serious harassment until we are able to force the company to back off.

    The idiots who are coming up with these policies are like absentee landlords; they sit in an office someplace with a bathroom just down the hall, happily oblivious to the effects that their "bright ideas" have upon the human beings who are out there in the real world doing the work.
  4. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member

    I am opposed to the stupid thought that lunch begins and ends at a stop on trace. I think lunch can be taken in trace, but should begin and end at the lunch location. It seems illegal to direct an employee to drive a company vehicle while on lunch.

    I am also against using telematics to find small discrepancies. There are enough large variances to address. Its idoyic to try and fix items that are smaller than the accurcay of the system.

    That being said, allowances were never "intentionally rigged" to be "one hour behind the actual time needed to complete the route". That didn't happen.

  5. What'dyabringmetoday???

    What'dyabringmetoday??? Well-Known Member

    I would have to disagree with your final claim, at least to an extent. Perhaps where you are no "monkey business" has gone on with the numbers but I am willing to bet that it has happened somewhere at UPS. You seem to be a straight shooter so I do not doubt that you are sincere, but I am sure you can see why some may question if allowances can be changed to suit the employer's needs from time to time.
  6. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member

    All I can say is that I have done countless work measurements. I've audited those of others many, many times and have taught classes over the years. I have never seen a measurement "intentionally rigged".

    Has it happened somewhere in UPS at some point in time?? I could never know for sure.... I doubt it though....

  7. j13501

    j13501 Member

    One of the best things about work measurement at UPS is that it is maintained and controlled by the IE department- which has no performance responsibilities. Then it is used to measure job performance of drivers, centers and divisions that are run by operations people, who don't have control of the allowances.

    In this way the company "controls" work measurement by insuring that the people responsible to attain the "numbers", are different from the people responsible for creating the allowances.

    Some drivers see all UPS management as part of the same fabric. In fact, the IE department is charged with auditing the numbers to keep "monkey business" to a minimum.

    Does it happen occasionally? Sure, that's when you see some center management people have integrity problems that cost them their jobs. But if you look at the whole view of work measurement, it's administered honestly.

    That doesn't mean you have to agree with the allowances, just understand that they are created without any "monkey business"
  8. happyboy

    happyboy Member

    I agree, I don't know why the Teamsters or Afl-cio won't stand up to Ups. I think we need to shame and embarrass ups in the press into doing the right thing.

    I think we need to report ups to the Dept of labor because ups allows and encourages their employees to work off the clock in the mornings and the lunch hour.
  9. wornoutupser

    wornoutupser Well-Known Member

    P Man,
    I am still in a building that has gone through PAS for over a year but STILL has not has a single time study. We are told that they will not happen.
    The time study for my run is over 22 years old. Do you believe this to be a fair standard?
    Things like this are why drivers believe standards are "jacked".
  10. thom1842

    thom1842 New Member

    Does this also apply to the 10 minute PT break? Our sups are trying to tell us that while we are sitting at letter boxes waiting for their P/U time we are supposed to take our break, but don't leave the box.
  11. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    What did the Easter Bunny bring you?

    HEFFERNAN Huge Member


    We had a discussion about Telematics around February. You said everything being thrown around was just hogwash and that it will be used for safety and for the mechanics. Now with virtual OJS's, drivers being harrassed when their truck hasn't moved for 63 minutes, lunch beginning at your last stop before it really begins.

    This isn't just one rouge center manager abusing the system (which is what you said may happen), this is a nationwide campaign brought down from Atlanta using these dispicable methods to "increase" production. Soberups is in the Seattle area and I am in the New England area, and it is a mirror image how Telematics is implemented and used to treat us like lifeless robots.

    The only thing that sucks more is that the head Teamsters are in bed with corporate and have not helped one bit in loosening the reins. I will tell you this, after 2013, there better be more focused language pertaining to this beatdown.
  13. helenofcalifornia

    helenofcalifornia Well-Known Member

    P Man, I respect most of what you say about UPS but what you say about the over/under is just wrong. Our best (and by best, I mean fastest) drivers at my center are never under, always over. And these are the runners and gunners. They may be almost at scratch, but never are. And if they can't do their routes in the official allotted UPS time for that route, no one can.

    So while I still respect your opinion on most subjects, I think you are dead wrong on this one. I go by stops per hour for an accurate reading of how I am doing, not the "over/under."
  14. Diego

    Diego New Member

    Crap, I used to run about 30 to 45 minutes over and in the last few months it is over an hour, I have changed nothing, so what is a man to think, they jack with the numbers, They could have changed a few unit numbers or just plain opened up my route punched a number and closed it. Same stops same miles same pieces same area but more over allowed. They do not mess withthe numbers?? YEA RIGHT!!
  15. ol'browneye

    ol'browneye Active Member

    Make sure you have ALL of your lunch and break done before getting the letter boxes. Than you are definately on their time, no other way around it!
  16. Coldworld

    Coldworld Taking it all back.....

    If everybody is so dissatisfied with the numbers why dont drivers start voting the bonus system by center. It has been done in some areas, a a few on here can attest to...
  17. upsman68

    upsman68 Active Member

  18. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    you should do a crispy Kreme charity drive to bring attention to this issue.:happy-very:
  19. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    UPS is trying to steal part of our lunch.

    That explains what happened to my baked potato? They left the broccoli.
  20. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member


    Here is my take.... I think that using Telematics for a virtual OJS is fine. I think the technology works great to find large discrepancies, and can allow supervisors to quickly evaluate Safety, Service, (and yes) performance.

    Atlanta has been pushing centers to show improvements in all of those areas. Yes, they have pushed hard to have them show improvements (probably too hard). There are enough large discrepancied that can be fixed without trying to find tiny variances in time.

    As you said, I do not think this is just two rogue managers. Its more wide spread than I think is productive. On the other hand, I think it will settle down. They have a new toy and will soon learn that tiny variances cannot be fixed....

    I think this is part of the same problem that I've seen too often with management..... They are trying to improve an important number without understanding what really makes the operation improve. The number is not the problem, its the not understanding that is.

    I guess its like knowing where you are supposed to go without knowing how to get there.

    Again, I think this will all settle down... It will have to.