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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 338897" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>You guys raise a good point concerning war and social security. Going back to the late 1930's, I wonder how aggressive FDR would have been with the Japanese and our oil blockade of them which was the catalyst for the Pearl Harbor attack had there been no social security? Seems an odd question I know but look at what our gov't does today with SS tax dollars as they spend it out leaving at best an IOU for future generations. In the 1935' Supreme Court case of Helvering vs. Davis the gov't argued and the court agreed that SS was an income tax on employee and an excise tax on employer and money collected was placed not in some so-called trust but rather into the general revenue fund where all taxes are placed. Concurrent to Helvering was another challenge to the August 1935' SS Act but SCOTUS ruled in Charles C. Seward Machine Co. vs. Davis that:</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>From there as general revenue, the gov't on a yearly basis allocates the monies to fund SS as a line item in the budget. An earlier SS model based on the lie we think SS is was attempted by the gov't involving railroad workers under regualtion of interstate commerce. The US in 1933' entered an international treaty and became a member of the International Labor Organization. In 1934', Congress passed the first federal social security act which was tied to the federal power over interstate commerce; in essence, those subject to the act were those who engaged in interstate transportation. Immediately the law was challenged and in May of 1935' SCOTUS ruled this act unconstitutional in Railroad Retirement Board vs. Alton R. Co. in which it said:</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>The ink wasn't even dry on Alton when Congress in August of 1935' went back in with our current SS law and this time there was no purpose of social welfare but rather an income tax on the employee already empowered by the 16th amendment and an excise tax on employers already empowered under Art. 1 authority after established abuse of the Commerce Clause. In Helvering, the court concurred and thus we have in effect a secondary source of revenue for the gov't to play with.</p><p> </p><p>Now this comes to my point of war itself. With this new found source of revenue to the gov't, they have money in hand to spend and as such, also the means to create a whole new industry known now as the Military/Industrial complex. Going back to WW2 and our actions on Japan, I again ask the question how aggressive would we have been to Japan had their been no secondary source of income? How quick to empire would we have been had their been no 16th amendment allowing the so-called Victory Tax Act that we know of today as the Income Tax Withholding via direct taxation of salaries and wages?</p><p> </p><p>Would there have been a Korea? Vietnam? Gulf War 1 or the current situation? How aggressive would our foreign policy over the last 75 years have been without this power of taxation and thus the means to fund the war machine we have become? Would there have even been a Cold War in which tons of monies and technology flowed from America to the USSR creating the very enemy we spent lives and fortunes to overcome?</p><p> </p><p>The so-called republican conservative if you will screams all day about over reaching gov't via the power of taxation but then he/she clamors for a war machine under the belief that freedom and liberty are only achieved by brute force. The virtues of liberty they proclaim but liberty is only given when the person makes the choices that they, the american conservative see fit and that choice in one that benefits the American and not always one to benefit the liberated. Ask those Mideast folks about US Corp. domination of their property which we call oil over the last 100 years? </p><p>We talk a good game about the high position of property rights but then go across the globe violating those very principles at will when it comes to others. You think the Trail of Tears was a one time event in North Georgia just so the white man could grab the gold that lay on Indian lands and we never violated that again? Did you ever consider that some mideast gov't may have nationalized their oil industry after years of having the Anglo-Americans only give them about 10% at best of the profits? Remember some idiot running for President talking about blowback? What the hell does he know, right? </p><p> </p><p>The liberal democrat on the other hand has the same level of disrepect for property rights as he never recognizes the fruits of one's labor as being my property but rather the property of the community at large and thus under the false guise of democracy, public policy tells me that I must labor twice as hard and long, once for myself and my family and then for the other guy we call the less fortunate. They never tell you that they've created a gov't bureauacy to oversee such noble causes that extracts a large % of revenue from you labor in adminstrative costs used to further empower gov't and the less fortunate are only given enough just to keep them able to come back to gov't for more. It has become it's own growth industry and this more than any other is why those numbers swell. Why solve a problem when you can make it gorw and thus your own power and position grow with it.</p><p> </p><p>War and Welfare are the 2 hand in hand powers of the Super State and you can not have one and not have the other. Both compell the individual to do what they on their own might otherwise choose not to do so where is there liberty and individual freedom. Did you ever consider the mideast sees us for the hypocrites that we really are?</p><p> </p><p>History is fat with this fact of life concerning authoraterian gov't such as we have today. GW, contary to the myth of the left has grown both the warfare and welfare state. The so-called democrat left howls only because it is not they in power. The democrat objects to the warfare State! Really? Then why in the end do they vote to approve every funding GW comes to Congress with? Don't feel to bad democrats because if the roles were reversed, it'd be the republicans howling. Even Clinton talked of privatizing SS but the republicans blocked the conversation until their guy got into office. Real principled fellas aren;t they!</p><p> </p><p>Social Security, Income Tax Withholding via the Victory Tax Act of 1942', Income Tax Act of 1954' and the 1986' Tax Act all push the Warfare/Welfare State forward with nothing in sight to stop it. Hilter and Mussolini also had their versions of the Warfare/Welfare State and this has led many including myself to conclude like the facist states before that we've also been taken down that road. You guys argue and argue about removing just one side of the pie and IMO that will not work in the longrun. In order to make America the great country it was meant to be and still can become, both the warfare and welfare side will have to be drastically cut and then let individuals in local communities step up and fill the gap. To many believe that won't happen but I believe they will and those needed true help will not be some constant drain but rather people will help them SOLVE the problem once and for all and everyone benefit from a better life. But if we all had better lives, what would we then need gov't to do?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 18px">AH-HA!</span></p><p> </p><p>Ring a bell did it?</p><p> </p><p>Did you ever consider the fact that the gov't creates the problems too?</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/surprised.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":surprised:" title="Surprised :surprised:" data-shortname=":surprised:" /></p><p> </p><p>JMO.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 338897, member: 2189"] You guys raise a good point concerning war and social security. Going back to the late 1930's, I wonder how aggressive FDR would have been with the Japanese and our oil blockade of them which was the catalyst for the Pearl Harbor attack had there been no social security? Seems an odd question I know but look at what our gov't does today with SS tax dollars as they spend it out leaving at best an IOU for future generations. In the 1935' Supreme Court case of Helvering vs. Davis the gov't argued and the court agreed that SS was an income tax on employee and an excise tax on employer and money collected was placed not in some so-called trust but rather into the general revenue fund where all taxes are placed. Concurrent to Helvering was another challenge to the August 1935' SS Act but SCOTUS ruled in Charles C. Seward Machine Co. vs. Davis that: From there as general revenue, the gov't on a yearly basis allocates the monies to fund SS as a line item in the budget. An earlier SS model based on the lie we think SS is was attempted by the gov't involving railroad workers under regualtion of interstate commerce. The US in 1933' entered an international treaty and became a member of the International Labor Organization. In 1934', Congress passed the first federal social security act which was tied to the federal power over interstate commerce; in essence, those subject to the act were those who engaged in interstate transportation. Immediately the law was challenged and in May of 1935' SCOTUS ruled this act unconstitutional in Railroad Retirement Board vs. Alton R. Co. in which it said: The ink wasn't even dry on Alton when Congress in August of 1935' went back in with our current SS law and this time there was no purpose of social welfare but rather an income tax on the employee already empowered by the 16th amendment and an excise tax on employers already empowered under Art. 1 authority after established abuse of the Commerce Clause. In Helvering, the court concurred and thus we have in effect a secondary source of revenue for the gov't to play with. Now this comes to my point of war itself. With this new found source of revenue to the gov't, they have money in hand to spend and as such, also the means to create a whole new industry known now as the Military/Industrial complex. Going back to WW2 and our actions on Japan, I again ask the question how aggressive would we have been to Japan had their been no secondary source of income? How quick to empire would we have been had their been no 16th amendment allowing the so-called Victory Tax Act that we know of today as the Income Tax Withholding via direct taxation of salaries and wages? Would there have been a Korea? Vietnam? Gulf War 1 or the current situation? How aggressive would our foreign policy over the last 75 years have been without this power of taxation and thus the means to fund the war machine we have become? Would there have even been a Cold War in which tons of monies and technology flowed from America to the USSR creating the very enemy we spent lives and fortunes to overcome? The so-called republican conservative if you will screams all day about over reaching gov't via the power of taxation but then he/she clamors for a war machine under the belief that freedom and liberty are only achieved by brute force. The virtues of liberty they proclaim but liberty is only given when the person makes the choices that they, the american conservative see fit and that choice in one that benefits the American and not always one to benefit the liberated. Ask those Mideast folks about US Corp. domination of their property which we call oil over the last 100 years? We talk a good game about the high position of property rights but then go across the globe violating those very principles at will when it comes to others. You think the Trail of Tears was a one time event in North Georgia just so the white man could grab the gold that lay on Indian lands and we never violated that again? Did you ever consider that some mideast gov't may have nationalized their oil industry after years of having the Anglo-Americans only give them about 10% at best of the profits? Remember some idiot running for President talking about blowback? What the hell does he know, right? The liberal democrat on the other hand has the same level of disrepect for property rights as he never recognizes the fruits of one's labor as being my property but rather the property of the community at large and thus under the false guise of democracy, public policy tells me that I must labor twice as hard and long, once for myself and my family and then for the other guy we call the less fortunate. They never tell you that they've created a gov't bureauacy to oversee such noble causes that extracts a large % of revenue from you labor in adminstrative costs used to further empower gov't and the less fortunate are only given enough just to keep them able to come back to gov't for more. It has become it's own growth industry and this more than any other is why those numbers swell. Why solve a problem when you can make it gorw and thus your own power and position grow with it. War and Welfare are the 2 hand in hand powers of the Super State and you can not have one and not have the other. Both compell the individual to do what they on their own might otherwise choose not to do so where is there liberty and individual freedom. Did you ever consider the mideast sees us for the hypocrites that we really are? History is fat with this fact of life concerning authoraterian gov't such as we have today. GW, contary to the myth of the left has grown both the warfare and welfare state. The so-called democrat left howls only because it is not they in power. The democrat objects to the warfare State! Really? Then why in the end do they vote to approve every funding GW comes to Congress with? Don't feel to bad democrats because if the roles were reversed, it'd be the republicans howling. Even Clinton talked of privatizing SS but the republicans blocked the conversation until their guy got into office. Real principled fellas aren;t they! Social Security, Income Tax Withholding via the Victory Tax Act of 1942', Income Tax Act of 1954' and the 1986' Tax Act all push the Warfare/Welfare State forward with nothing in sight to stop it. Hilter and Mussolini also had their versions of the Warfare/Welfare State and this has led many including myself to conclude like the facist states before that we've also been taken down that road. You guys argue and argue about removing just one side of the pie and IMO that will not work in the longrun. In order to make America the great country it was meant to be and still can become, both the warfare and welfare side will have to be drastically cut and then let individuals in local communities step up and fill the gap. To many believe that won't happen but I believe they will and those needed true help will not be some constant drain but rather people will help them SOLVE the problem once and for all and everyone benefit from a better life. But if we all had better lives, what would we then need gov't to do? [SIZE=5]AH-HA![/SIZE] Ring a bell did it? Did you ever consider the fact that the gov't creates the problems too? :surprised: JMO. [/QUOTE]
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