Catatonic
Nine Lives
And you didn't understand the difference did you?
UPS on Trial?
- Thread starter OPTION3
- Start date
OPTION3
Well-Known Member
you use neither one right?
Catatonic
Nine Lives
You are a hoot!
I only discussed one! LOL
Cement, as if all UPS terminations are legitimate. If you only knew how many cases are overturned each month. UPS managers and labor managers play loose with the rules when they "want" to get a particular person out. I for one, would like to see the OFFICIAL reason UPS terminated this driver, but I can honestly bet it had to do with production and ORION.
YOU have it sort of right, but mostly WRONG.
In some parts of the country (not my local, thank you very much) UPS has "Working Terminations". In these cases, UPS will sit an employee down, terminate them, and then allow them to work until they build a case against them and then take that information to local panels or national arbitration.
This could take a year or more, but in the meantime, the person fired works under duress for the entire period.
They still come to work, see the very people who fired them, and simply wait for the company to rack up charges.
In this particular case, this driver experienced this very situation. ON a working termination, he was harrassed by management everyday until his termination was finally established and he came in and recieved notice that his case/termination was upheld.
We are talking about taking a mans career, income and retirement taken away from him with a process that only creates stress and discord on the shop floor. We dont know the duration of this particular process, but we can understand how it could drive a person to something like this.
In past negotiations, working terminations have been discussed, but UPS insists on having them in order to "make a case" versus "having a case". The Teamsters have always warned about situations like these arising stemming from harrassment, but the company refuses to listen.
Maybe now, in light of this tragedy, UPS will open their eyes to what they are contributing to situations like these.
As for me, I have no sympathy for either supervisor in this case. I know the pressure and stress all managers place unfairly onto UPS workers.
At some point, this was bound to happen, and at some point, it will happen again if they keep pushing the wrong people who own guns.
TOS.
retiredTxfeeder
cap'n crunch
Joe may have lost a numbers game at the panel. Speculation here, which is all any of us have at this time. The company may have told the union. "We will give "these" two guys over here their jobs back, but since we have it in for "this" guy, you have to vote thumbs down to make it unanimous. Stuff like that happens at panel all the time.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
That's been the game for decades but I never saw the Union "give up" a member unless they agreed the member was worthless or had been given all the chances they deserved.
bham brown
Well-Known Member
Come on TOS.. No sympathy for the management guys that lost their lives?? Dude that's harsh. Would if I told you that one of the guys he shot was actually trying to fight for Joe's job? Would that change your mind? The other guy was just a dispatcher as far as I know and had little to nothing to do with the whole situation. There is a lot about this situation that most will never know. There was harassment going on most likely, maybe production, I don't know for sure on that. But I am sure it wasn't ORION. We don't have it in Birmingham.. But like I said in another thread, hopefully someone will do some investigative work on this and maybe things that I can't say on a forum will find their way to the media. Maybe then we will see some changes.
I dont make statements like that without conviction. I dont have ANY sympathy for supervisors because in 25 years ive experienced MANY of them who could care less about the pain and suffering they inflicted on employees. I think I have been really clear, today's UPS is full of supervisors who do the same thing.
Unnecessary stress affect people differently. Heck, a ton of management personnel have to take "stress leave" every year, and if anyone believes the UPS system isnt stressful, then maybe they should get a reality check on the subject.
The system is creating monsters on both sides.
Messing with a persons livelihood to the point where they snap is becoming a bigger threat to UPS then people want to believe.
You can bet your ash that ORION has alot to do with it around the country.
It matters not to me the participation of either supervisor in the case whether positive or negative. Whats important is what UPS takes from the incident itself.
Will it examine how its creating these hostile work environments? or will it continue to do business as usual until the next tragedy affects a UPS hub in the UPS.
Heck, we just lost a division manager, who was "walked out" just last monday by the company and security was tighter than a knats ash.
They made sure he got into his car, and drove off the property before any of the security personnel came back into the building.
In this case, UPS allowed its center team to fire a man, let him work, harrass him until his case was finalized, then let him come to work, sit him down, hand him his walking papers and then expected him to just walk out and go home, failing to secure the property, the gate and the employees.
Its clear the company was NEGLIGENT in protecting the building and employees.
For whatever reasons, this driver was taken to his breaking point, and the company made sure he got there.
Maybe it was personal for the center manager and his team, and if it was, then the ends justified the means in that drivers mind. "take from me, I take from you".
We should all work to end "working terminations" and agree that if the company believes they have a case, then by all means, fire the employee. Go through the process without putting the driver through even more stress than is absolutely necessary.
Establish a national 7 cardinal sin policy for all terminations, instead of allowing the center team to compile a case of bullcrap based on production numbers and go to arbitration willing to flip a coin on the outcome.
TOS.
beatupbrown
Well-Known Member
I would see firing for not basically not running i.e. production numbers .They followed one driver around in personal cars, bring in a IMPORTANT manager from a different center or what have you to make it feel more serious .The driver called the police on UPS for following him, said he was going to be robbed .They fired that guy 3 to 4 times strictly based on production numbers of course they would came up with a cleaver language as to why he was fired he always got his job back, it was just harassment .
We had the same thing happen to another driver they fired him 4 to 5 times for production they finally came up a cleaver language that stuck he lost this job.
I did not know how he put up with the pressure of being fired all the time like .He was very level headed person never let it get under his skin.
Last I was told he went to feeders to everyone’s delight well maybe not sure what feeders thought.
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
Unless employees that work in that building (Roebuck Center I believe) come out and give specifics we will never know what he was fired for.
I read the reader comments under the various online articles about this and more than a few of the locals (people living in that area, not union locals) chimed in and also a few that talked like they worked in that center or maybe the nearby hub. Apparently the guy wasn't exactly a customer favorite and had been fired before. Not to mention the radiator incident.
The word coming from the feeder driver rumor network is that one of the supervisors killed just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and wasn't even the target. But either way neither deserved to die. I, unlike a certain person on this board that has a black ball of hot puss where their heart should be, has plenty of sympathy for anyone (including management) who is murdered in cold blood by an employee that went off his rocker.
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I read the reader comments under the various online articles about this and more than a few of the locals (people living in that area, not union locals) chimed in and also a few that talked like they worked in that center or maybe the nearby hub. Apparently the guy wasn't exactly a customer favorite and had been fired before. Not to mention the radiator incident.
The word coming from the feeder driver rumor network is that one of the supervisors killed just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and wasn't even the target. But either way neither deserved to die. I, unlike a certain person on this board that has a black ball of hot puss where their heart should be, has plenty of sympathy for anyone (including management) who is murdered in cold blood by an employee that went off his rocker.
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HBGPreloader
Well-Known Member
Regardless of the reasoning for the termination and retaliation, the many people I spoke with pretty much have stated they were surprised it didn't happen sooner or more frequently.
browned out
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily. I was suspended and discharged based on the dishonesty of three managers. The grievance panel upheld their dishonest actions. I had another outlet that Joe may not have had. I filed a retaliation whistleblower suit with OSHA. OSHA found that UPS was in violation and that UPS had retaliated.
I don't see anything that points to Joe being mentally unstable before his termination. UPS management has selectively disciplined and retaliated against employees for many reasons.
what was your case and did it last for 3 months?
jumpman23
Oh Yeah
Good post TOS. Company is a bunch of a-holes for sure. He should have sued them instead of taking it that far. But I get it why he may have done it, still don't make it right though.
I agree... and Jump, those Kinivo's make my ears sweat, lol
jumpman23
Oh Yeah
Everybody has a different temperament that's for sure. I know what its like to almost kill somebody out of rage, but it was in self defense. Like I said before theres a difference in having a bad temper and a homicidal type temper, me unfortunately and I hate to say it and admit to it, and it is embarrassing to say, that a person can have that much rage and power. Fortunately I can control it now that im older, and have way too much to lose in every aspect of life, and don't let these 
es get under my skin to the point where I just snap n go ballistic. Totally not worth it, ill walk away or walk outside n do my little rage routine to get it all out of myself. Totally scare the hell out of myself that I have that type temper, but its from being abused as a child and I guess I still got that rage bottled up inside because of it. Everybody has different sources and circumstances to why they snap. Which is weird really cause im a pretty easy going chill always want to have fun and laugh type of person. Like I said were all different and have different levels of when we could totally snap. Unfortunately this gentlemen brought it way too far with the circumstances and could have been handled in a different more effective or professional way. God bless all that were involved in this tragedy.
es get under my skin to the point where I just snap n go ballistic. Totally not worth it, ill walk away or walk outside n do my little rage routine to get it all out of myself. Totally scare the hell out of myself that I have that type temper, but its from being abused as a child and I guess I still got that rage bottled up inside because of it. Everybody has different sources and circumstances to why they snap. Which is weird really cause im a pretty easy going chill always want to have fun and laugh type of person. Like I said were all different and have different levels of when we could totally snap. Unfortunately this gentlemen brought it way too far with the circumstances and could have been handled in a different more effective or professional way. God bless all that were involved in this tragedy.
