Home
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Retirement Topics
UPS subsidizing non ups pensions
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="JonFrum" data-source="post: 116456"><p>Well, a week has passed since I started this thread by challenging those who claim UPSers are subsidizing the retirement of those who worked for other companies. Thus far no one has offered any specific proof of the subsidy, or a step-by-step explanation of how it works, or how they estimated its magnitude. I'll keep waiting. </p><p></p><p>It's hard to imagine a subsidy of major porportions because many non-UPSers who retire either aren't entitled to any benefit at all, or must wait years for their benefit to start, or are only entitled to a modest benefit, or only collect for a short time. Non-UPS pensioners have, of course, earned their Pension Credits by years of work for one or more companies who contributed to the various Pension Funds on their behalf. Ultimate benefit levels are actuarily adjusted (more or less) to account for the specific hourly contribution rate, the years of service, and weather various benefit options have been selected, such as the reduction that applies when a retiree wishes his/her surviving spouse to continue receiving a monthly check after the retiree's death. </p><p></p><p>But let's consider the dramatic situation of a retiree who worked for a company that went out of business many years ago but is still receiving monthly benefit checks and might continue to do so for years to come. Surely UPSers are subsidizing retirees in this situation, at least? Well, yes. But let's remember that before any subsidy needs to kick in, the retiree will first be paid from all those years of contributions his company made on his behalf. Then there's all the investment income the fund made on all those contributions. And finally, let's not forget the many contributions made by that defunct company on behalf of all its workers who never achieved vesting status. Non-vested retirees, don't get any retirement benefit, period. Their contributions are forfeited and remain in the fund. </p><p></p><p>Those who claim that UPS contributions are supporting non-UPSers are including, in their analysis, all contributions by UPS, not just those funds contributed on behalf of vested retirees. It's only fair to "compare apples with apples" and include all contributions by the long-out-of-business company on behalf of its never-vested employees as well. The individual retiree may well have quite an additional sum to draw on. Some monies have been invested and reinvested for decades. Further, the vesting requirement has been five years recently, but it use to be ten years. That's a huge number of participants from decades' past that have had contributions made in their name and reinvested year after year, and they can't claim a penny of it. Only after our non-UPS retiree draws down his prorata share of these sums would he start receiving a subsidy from the contributions of all other companies, UPS among them. How much could it possibly be?</p><p>- - - - -</p><p>[ Visit <a href="http://www.familywatchdog.us" target="_blank">National Sex Offender Registry</a> and enter your Zip Code to view maps and lists of dangerous Registered Sex Offenders living and working near your home and your childrens' schools. Includes mug shots, convictions, addresses, etc. Scary stuff. ]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JonFrum, post: 116456"] Well, a week has passed since I started this thread by challenging those who claim UPSers are subsidizing the retirement of those who worked for other companies. Thus far no one has offered any specific proof of the subsidy, or a step-by-step explanation of how it works, or how they estimated its magnitude. I'll keep waiting. It's hard to imagine a subsidy of major porportions because many non-UPSers who retire either aren't entitled to any benefit at all, or must wait years for their benefit to start, or are only entitled to a modest benefit, or only collect for a short time. Non-UPS pensioners have, of course, earned their Pension Credits by years of work for one or more companies who contributed to the various Pension Funds on their behalf. Ultimate benefit levels are actuarily adjusted (more or less) to account for the specific hourly contribution rate, the years of service, and weather various benefit options have been selected, such as the reduction that applies when a retiree wishes his/her surviving spouse to continue receiving a monthly check after the retiree's death. But let's consider the dramatic situation of a retiree who worked for a company that went out of business many years ago but is still receiving monthly benefit checks and might continue to do so for years to come. Surely UPSers are subsidizing retirees in this situation, at least? Well, yes. But let's remember that before any subsidy needs to kick in, the retiree will first be paid from all those years of contributions his company made on his behalf. Then there's all the investment income the fund made on all those contributions. And finally, let's not forget the many contributions made by that defunct company on behalf of all its workers who never achieved vesting status. Non-vested retirees, don't get any retirement benefit, period. Their contributions are forfeited and remain in the fund. Those who claim that UPS contributions are supporting non-UPSers are including, in their analysis, all contributions by UPS, not just those funds contributed on behalf of vested retirees. It's only fair to "compare apples with apples" and include all contributions by the long-out-of-business company on behalf of its never-vested employees as well. The individual retiree may well have quite an additional sum to draw on. Some monies have been invested and reinvested for decades. Further, the vesting requirement has been five years recently, but it use to be ten years. That's a huge number of participants from decades' past that have had contributions made in their name and reinvested year after year, and they can't claim a penny of it. Only after our non-UPS retiree draws down his prorata share of these sums would he start receiving a subsidy from the contributions of all other companies, UPS among them. How much could it possibly be? - - - - - [ Visit [url=http://www.familywatchdog.us]National Sex Offender Registry[/url] and enter your Zip Code to view maps and lists of dangerous Registered Sex Offenders living and working near your home and your childrens' schools. Includes mug shots, convictions, addresses, etc. Scary stuff. ] [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Home
Forums
Brown Cafe UPS Forum
UPS Retirement Topics
UPS subsidizing non ups pensions
Top