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UPS subsidizing non ups pensions
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<blockquote data-quote="JonFrum" data-source="post: 134011"><p>Here are some thoughts based on my recent research into this whole pension mess . . .</p><p></p><p>1) All talk about employers, like UPS, having to pay excise taxes or fines or make emergency "contributions" above and beyond what they already are contractually obligated to make, as a result of Teamsters pension funds being seriously underfunded, should stop. If any one knows of UPS receiving such a payment demand, please tell us. Otherwise, let's regard this as alarmist rhetoric and remove it from the discussion.</p><p></p><p>2) Unless someone knows of some law that would allow it, we should assume that the monies contributed to the Teamsters plans by UPS (on our behalf), are stuck in the Teamsters plans until we individually become eligible to collect them (if ever) in the form of a monthly retirement benefit check (or an individual lump-sum retirement check.) We probably can't, as a group, ask for our money back, just as you probably can't get the United Way to refund your contributions of ten and twenty years ago. So either state convincing grounds for being able to transfer the funds to a new fund, or I suggest we regard this idea as naieve and move on.</p><p></p><p>3) The APWA needs to publish on-line their version of the UPS collective bargaining agreement, their version of their pension plan Rules & Regulations and Summary Plan Description, their version of their Health & Welfare program, their versions of the respective Trust Agreements, their Constitution and By-Laws, and any other important documents of a similar nature. If they don't have finalized versions, then publish proposed versions, just as the Teamsters and UPS submit proposed contract changes to each other during negotiations. Please don't tell me to e-mail or call APWA with my questions, or tell me to check their website, or ask them to hold a meeting in my area, which seems to be the standard reply to any request. I'm trying to get beyond the superficial and get some actual facts so we can all make informed judgements. We need official information and as much detail as posssible.</p><p></p><p>4) All pension funds are probably doing better financially now that the stock market has recovered somewhat. Furthermore, the current Contract runs thru July 31, 2008, which should put a lot more money into the funds by the time it expires. In addition, recent pension legislation has put all pension plans on notice that they must improve their financial situation pronto. The Central States fund is even confiscating three years of Health & Welfare raises and "redirecting" them into the pension fund. Maybe they'll do it with next year's H & W raise as well. Leaving the funds will trigger Withdrawal Liability and lawsuits and probably the Trustees will take evasive action to get as much out of UPSers as possible before any move is final. Doesn't this all mean any change will be very expensive indeed? Can anyone provide details?</p><p></p><p>5) Can someone explain to me why no one ever discussed the Rules and Regulations of the various pension plans. These plans all have features and each of you sinks or swims depending upon how each feature of the plan effects you. Plan features are just like the various provisions of the UPS Contract. You will be helped or harmed, depending upon weather the language says one thing or the opposite. Most UPSers pay little attention to the Contract, but at least there are negotiations and contract meetings every few years. No one seemed to want to investigate and amend the pension plan provisions. No one wanted a vote, they just accepted the plan on faith. Don't you think it odd that one can be enrolled in the plan for twenty or more years and never give a thought to reading the document, much less insisting that onerous features be changed for the better. Unless financial disaster strikes, then they get interested, but by then it may be too late. </p><p></p><p>6) So many seem to believe the problem with the pension funds is that the Teamsters are taking 60% of UPSers contributions and using them to fund other people's retirement. My view is that the major problem is not the Teamsters, but UPS. Nearly every decision big and small that UPS makes has pension consequences, even though most don't realize it. UPS policies make it very difficult to actually qualify for a pension. For one reason or another, many UPSers fail to meet the requirements set by the plan trustees and thus some or all of the money UPS contributed on their behalf is forfeited to the fund. The money becomes the property of the fund and is then available for whatever the Trustees wish to spend it on, like other people's retirement. In effect, trying to survive at UPS long enough to actually collect a pension is like playing a lottery in which only a relative handfull are declared winners. I'm trying to generate a list of all the UPS policies that make it difficult to accumulate enough Pension Credits to collect benefits. It's a long list. You can get an idea of how difficult it is to make it to retirement at UPS by considering this unbelievable statistic. In 1986 only 31 UPSers in all of New England were actually drawing a retirement check. That's right. Of all the UPSers past and present (in 1986) in all six New England states, only 31 actually managed to successfully run the gauntlet and survive at UPS long enough to actually make it to the finish line. This figure is actually a bit high because it includes deceased UPSers who's checks were being received be their surviving spouse. The figure for 1987 was 46 retirees. These figures are from the discovery process of a 1986 Class Action lawsuit against the New England fund. This tells me that, for the most part, UPSers are simply abandoning their contributions in the various funds by failing to meet retirement qualifications. It's not appropriate to refer to abandoned or forfeited funds as being stolen by the Teamsters or as being used to subsidize other's retirement at UPSers' expense. According to The Law, if you don't show up to use your season tickets, the owners may give your seat to someone else. You abandoned it. The Law regards that as your freely chosen decision. And now the bad news. If you switch to a UPS-only retirement fund, you will still be dealing with UPS, and presumably their retirement-hostile policies, unless you intend to get those policies changed somehow. (It seems management UPSers are having their problems surviving until retirement at UPS too.) We need to determine how many retired UPSers are actually collecting checks from each of the funds currently. If the numbers are low, this will tell us that UPSers are just not qualifying for retirement, and largely abandoning the monies UPS contributed in their name.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JonFrum, post: 134011"] Here are some thoughts based on my recent research into this whole pension mess . . . 1) All talk about employers, like UPS, having to pay excise taxes or fines or make emergency "contributions" above and beyond what they already are contractually obligated to make, as a result of Teamsters pension funds being seriously underfunded, should stop. If any one knows of UPS receiving such a payment demand, please tell us. Otherwise, let's regard this as alarmist rhetoric and remove it from the discussion. 2) Unless someone knows of some law that would allow it, we should assume that the monies contributed to the Teamsters plans by UPS (on our behalf), are stuck in the Teamsters plans until we individually become eligible to collect them (if ever) in the form of a monthly retirement benefit check (or an individual lump-sum retirement check.) We probably can't, as a group, ask for our money back, just as you probably can't get the United Way to refund your contributions of ten and twenty years ago. So either state convincing grounds for being able to transfer the funds to a new fund, or I suggest we regard this idea as naieve and move on. 3) The APWA needs to publish on-line their version of the UPS collective bargaining agreement, their version of their pension plan Rules & Regulations and Summary Plan Description, their version of their Health & Welfare program, their versions of the respective Trust Agreements, their Constitution and By-Laws, and any other important documents of a similar nature. If they don't have finalized versions, then publish proposed versions, just as the Teamsters and UPS submit proposed contract changes to each other during negotiations. Please don't tell me to e-mail or call APWA with my questions, or tell me to check their website, or ask them to hold a meeting in my area, which seems to be the standard reply to any request. I'm trying to get beyond the superficial and get some actual facts so we can all make informed judgements. We need official information and as much detail as posssible. 4) All pension funds are probably doing better financially now that the stock market has recovered somewhat. Furthermore, the current Contract runs thru July 31, 2008, which should put a lot more money into the funds by the time it expires. In addition, recent pension legislation has put all pension plans on notice that they must improve their financial situation pronto. The Central States fund is even confiscating three years of Health & Welfare raises and "redirecting" them into the pension fund. Maybe they'll do it with next year's H & W raise as well. Leaving the funds will trigger Withdrawal Liability and lawsuits and probably the Trustees will take evasive action to get as much out of UPSers as possible before any move is final. Doesn't this all mean any change will be very expensive indeed? Can anyone provide details? 5) Can someone explain to me why no one ever discussed the Rules and Regulations of the various pension plans. These plans all have features and each of you sinks or swims depending upon how each feature of the plan effects you. Plan features are just like the various provisions of the UPS Contract. You will be helped or harmed, depending upon weather the language says one thing or the opposite. Most UPSers pay little attention to the Contract, but at least there are negotiations and contract meetings every few years. No one seemed to want to investigate and amend the pension plan provisions. No one wanted a vote, they just accepted the plan on faith. Don't you think it odd that one can be enrolled in the plan for twenty or more years and never give a thought to reading the document, much less insisting that onerous features be changed for the better. Unless financial disaster strikes, then they get interested, but by then it may be too late. 6) So many seem to believe the problem with the pension funds is that the Teamsters are taking 60% of UPSers contributions and using them to fund other people's retirement. My view is that the major problem is not the Teamsters, but UPS. Nearly every decision big and small that UPS makes has pension consequences, even though most don't realize it. UPS policies make it very difficult to actually qualify for a pension. For one reason or another, many UPSers fail to meet the requirements set by the plan trustees and thus some or all of the money UPS contributed on their behalf is forfeited to the fund. The money becomes the property of the fund and is then available for whatever the Trustees wish to spend it on, like other people's retirement. In effect, trying to survive at UPS long enough to actually collect a pension is like playing a lottery in which only a relative handfull are declared winners. I'm trying to generate a list of all the UPS policies that make it difficult to accumulate enough Pension Credits to collect benefits. It's a long list. You can get an idea of how difficult it is to make it to retirement at UPS by considering this unbelievable statistic. In 1986 only 31 UPSers in all of New England were actually drawing a retirement check. That's right. Of all the UPSers past and present (in 1986) in all six New England states, only 31 actually managed to successfully run the gauntlet and survive at UPS long enough to actually make it to the finish line. This figure is actually a bit high because it includes deceased UPSers who's checks were being received be their surviving spouse. The figure for 1987 was 46 retirees. These figures are from the discovery process of a 1986 Class Action lawsuit against the New England fund. This tells me that, for the most part, UPSers are simply abandoning their contributions in the various funds by failing to meet retirement qualifications. It's not appropriate to refer to abandoned or forfeited funds as being stolen by the Teamsters or as being used to subsidize other's retirement at UPSers' expense. According to The Law, if you don't show up to use your season tickets, the owners may give your seat to someone else. You abandoned it. The Law regards that as your freely chosen decision. And now the bad news. If you switch to a UPS-only retirement fund, you will still be dealing with UPS, and presumably their retirement-hostile policies, unless you intend to get those policies changed somehow. (It seems management UPSers are having their problems surviving until retirement at UPS too.) We need to determine how many retired UPSers are actually collecting checks from each of the funds currently. If the numbers are low, this will tell us that UPSers are just not qualifying for retirement, and largely abandoning the monies UPS contributed in their name. [/QUOTE]
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