Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by 10yearteamster, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. 10yearteamster

    10yearteamster New Member

    In our hub, we have a returning veteran. He has been gone ten years. Once he returns, he will go to the top of our list for part timers. My question is, isn't there (according to userra rights) a 5-year limit on him returning? I have asked my local union rep about it and he said its an HR thing. When I ask HR, they say he is still receiving medical benefits and they're not sure why he qualifies (local hr manager, not corporate) There are a lot of angry people right now about this. I'm trying to get answers, but I'm getting no where.

    Anyone who may have experienced this before, I would love some pointers on my best way to proceed
  2. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    He served his country for ten years, has now come back and you're going to give him BS?

    How about you guys welcome him back and thank him for his service.
  3. 10yearteamster

    10yearteamster New Member

    I do thank him for his service. However, I'm realistic. The law states 5 years. Is it not my job as a shop steward to investigate and determine the legality of what is taking place? In a town with a 17% unemployment rate, people want answers and I plan on giving them answers.
  4. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member


    I don't know what the law says. Does it say "at least 5 years"? Maybe UPS (or any company) can make it longer if they choose?
  5. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Yikes, I just read thru it. I see the "must not exceed 5 years" part.

    But then in the small print it says, "USERRA also allows an employee to complete an initial period of active duty that exceeds five years."

  6. 10yearteamster

    10yearteamster New Member

    It says 5 years. But you bring up a good point about UPS maybe having it's own policy. I looked into that, and it said please refer to USERRA rights in the National Master Agreement. So with that being said, I assume they go by the National Standard.

    Here is a brief excerpt that should give you the jist of USERRA rights:

    You have the right to be reemployed in your civilian job if you leave that
    job to perform service in the uniformed service and:
    I you ensure that your employer receives advance written or verbal
    notice of your service;

    I you have five years or less of cumulative service in the uniformed
    services while with that particular employer;

    I you return to work or apply for reemployment in a timely manner
    after conclusion of service; and

    I you have not been separated from service with a disqualifying
    discharge or under other than honorable conditions.

    If you are eligible to be reemployed, you must be restored to the job and
    benefits you would have attained if you had not been absent due to
    military service or, in some cases, a comparable job.
  7. steward71

    steward71 Active Member

    I'm 18yrs in at UPS and if this person has servered our country and he goes to the top when they get back, THEN THAT IS WHERE HE/SHE GOES, END OF STORY. HOW DARE YOU COME HERE AND CRY ABOUT THIS ISSUE. THIS PERSON WAS WILLING TO DIE FOR YOU AND YOUR FREEDOM. Shut the hell up and do your job and shake his hand and say thank you to this person for what he/she has done. Some may not agree but, I really don't care if you do. These people who protect the everyday American is the highest on my list and will never stop standing up for them even if it hurts your little sr. list of that should be at the top of instead of him Bull SH**. Get a life and be thankful you live in a country you can be free in to make yourself look stupid if you want, just like you have done here.
  8. 10yearteamster

    10yearteamster New Member

    I'll have to take a look at that. Thanks
  9. steward71

    steward71 Active Member

    It is up the company to do this to allow this. the law was placed to protect Vet to have a job when they returned. i don't see anything wrong with this, this has happened twice in my area, agian it the company can do this, you can find many ruling on this very same issue on
  10. 10yearteamster

    10yearteamster New Member

    Extremely unprofessional. I have a responsibility to my people to get answers. The name calling is unnecessary.

    I am not crying, I have seniority over him and it wont even affect me. I have bargaining unit employees complaining to me about this, because they understand the law to not allow this. If you are in fact a shop steward, I feel bad for your people because you obviously let things slide if they don't fit into your own 'moral code'

    I investigate without regard for my own opinion or feelings. I am objective to all situations, and I believe all stewards should be. I am extremely grateful for this man's service, but I also took an oath to fight for the rights of my fellow Teamsters and that is exactly what i'm going to do. All I want is what is right based on the law and if that means he comes back with full seniority, I will welcome him with open arms.
  11. cheryl

    cheryl I started this. Staff Member

    A friendly reminder:

    It is fine to disagree with a different viewpoint, but please limit this to challenging the idea and not make your comments a personal challenge or make derogatory personal comments about individuals or their choices or circumstances, which disparage their ideas, opinions, their occupation or their personal situation. These examples are not exhaustive. Insulting or disparaging another member is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done. These offensive comments are contrary to the spirit of legitimate, reasoned debate and damaging to the purpose of our community.

    Discussion can be animated, which is fine, but we do not welcome personal attacks, on- or off-board. Derogatory, insulting, or belittling statements, directed at other members as well as direct or indirect personal attacks are not permitted on our forum.
  12. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    I was gonna give you positive rep but the computer wouldn't let me.
    I agree with you 100%
    Vets don't forget.
  13. cachsux

    cachsux Wah

    Mom has spoken. next time she'll pull the car over.

    As far as the original subject , with all the stuff that UPS violates legally ,ethically, and contractually, I think they get a slide on this one.
  14. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    There are exceptions to the 5 year limit, and one or more of these may apply:
  15. 10yearteamster

    10yearteamster New Member

    Thank you, This will help a lot.
  16. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    What's your next step? I suppose HR has to know if one of these applies. Do you go to them? Can they even tell you?
  17. 10yearteamster

    10yearteamster New Member

    Yes. I'm going to schedule a meeting with my local HR rep and then get her to contact corporate HR, so they can supply me with documentation that suggest one of those applies to him.
  18. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Easy there, cowboy. The OP has a valid point. Yes, I am a vet, but there is no way I would expect my employer to keep my job open for 10 years while I played soldier. Serving for 10 years means he reenlisted at least two times which would make him a career soldier.

    Over, the normal enlistment is 4 years active duty and 2 years inactive reserve.

    If I worked in that hub I would also be upset.
  19. gorilla75jdw

    gorilla75jdw Active Member

    this is what is wrong with this country , let your Local Business agent handle it .
  20. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

    Let's suppose you were a 9 year employee and, due to high turnover in your hub, you were the top seniority PTer, which meant you got first dibs on vacations. Along comes this guy who used to work there 10 years ago and he is not only given his job back but is now the top seniority PTer in the hub, which means he get first dibs on vacations before you. How would you feel about that?

    As I said, I am a vet and appreciate this guy's service, but the legislation was written in such a way to protect the rights of both the service member and the employees. Holding a position for 5 years is fair to all involved---holding it for 10 is fair only to the service member. When I was active duty and deciding whether to reenlist for a second time I was told numerous times that if you stay for eight you may as well stay for twenty. I got out at just under 8 years. Someone who has served for 10 years is a career soldier and IMO has given up any claim to his former job and any seniority within said job.

    If he wants to come back to work he should be treated like any other new employee.