USERRA Rights

10yearteamster

Active Member
In our hub, we have a returning veteran. He has been gone ten years. Once he returns, he will go to the top of our list for part timers. My question is, isn't there (according to userra rights) a 5-year limit on him returning? I have asked my local union rep about it and he said its an HR thing. When I ask HR, they say he is still receiving medical benefits and they're not sure why he qualifies (local hr manager, not corporate) There are a lot of angry people right now about this. I'm trying to get answers, but I'm getting no where.

Anyone who may have experienced this before, I would love some pointers on my best way to proceed
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
He served his country for ten years, has now come back and you're going to give him BS?

How about you guys welcome him back and thank him for his service.
 

10yearteamster

Active Member
I do thank him for his service. However, I'm realistic. The law states 5 years. Is it not my job as a shop steward to investigate and determine the legality of what is taking place? In a town with a 17% unemployment rate, people want answers and I plan on giving them answers.
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
OK.

I don't know what the law says. Does it say "at least 5 years"? Maybe UPS (or any company) can make it longer if they choose?
 

over9five

Moderator
Staff member
Yikes, I just read thru it. I see the "must not exceed 5 years" part.

But then in the small print it says, "USERRA also allows an employee to complete an initial period of active duty that exceeds five years."


 

10yearteamster

Active Member
It says 5 years. But you bring up a good point about UPS maybe having it's own policy. I looked into that, and it said please refer to USERRA rights in the National Master Agreement. So with that being said, I assume they go by the National Standard.

Here is a brief excerpt that should give you the jist of USERRA rights:

REEMPLOYMENT RIGHTS
You have the right to be reemployed in your civilian job if you leave that
job to perform service in the uniformed service and:
I you ensure that your employer receives advance written or verbal
notice of your service;

I you have five years or less of cumulative service in the uniformed
services while with that particular employer;


I you return to work or apply for reemployment in a timely manner
after conclusion of service; and

I you have not been separated from service with a disqualifying
discharge or under other than honorable conditions.

If you are eligible to be reemployed, you must be restored to the job and
benefits you would have attained if you had not been absent due to
military service or, in some cases, a comparable job.
RIGHT TO BE FREE FROM DISCRIMINATION AND RETALIATION
 

steward71

Well-Known Member
In our hub, we have a returning veteran. He has been gone ten years. Once he returns, he will go to the top of our list for part timers. My question is, isn't there (according to userra rights) a 5-year limit on him returning? I have asked my local union rep about it and he said its an HR thing. When I ask HR, they say he is still receiving medical benefits and they're not sure why he qualifies (local hr manager, not corporate) There are a lot of angry people right now about this. I'm trying to get answers, but I'm getting no where.

Anyone who may have experienced this before, I would love some pointers on my best way to proceed

I'm 18yrs in at UPS and if this person has servered our country and he goes to the top when they get back, THEN THAT IS WHERE HE/SHE GOES, END OF STORY. HOW DARE YOU COME HERE AND CRY ABOUT THIS ISSUE. THIS PERSON WAS WILLING TO DIE FOR YOU AND YOUR FREEDOM. Shut the hell up and do your job and shake his hand and say thank you to this person for what he/she has done. Some may not agree but, I really don't care if you do. These people who protect the everyday American is the highest on my list and will never stop standing up for them even if it hurts your little sr. list of that should be at the top of instead of him Bull SH**. Get a life and be thankful you live in a country you can be free in to make yourself look stupid if you want, just like you have done here.
 

steward71

Well-Known Member
OK.

I don't know what the law says. Does it say "at least 5 years"? Maybe UPS (or any company) can make it longer if they choose?

It is up the company to do this to allow this. the law was placed to protect Vet to have a job when they returned. i don't see anything wrong with this, this has happened twice in my area, agian it the company can do this, you can find many ruling on this very same issue on FindLaw.com
 

10yearteamster

Active Member
Extremely unprofessional. I have a responsibility to my people to get answers. The name calling is unnecessary.

I am not crying, I have seniority over him and it wont even affect me. I have bargaining unit employees complaining to me about this, because they understand the law to not allow this. If you are in fact a shop steward, I feel bad for your people because you obviously let things slide if they don't fit into your own 'moral code'

I investigate without regard for my own opinion or feelings. I am objective to all situations, and I believe all stewards should be. I am extremely grateful for this man's service, but I also took an oath to fight for the rights of my fellow Teamsters and that is exactly what i'm going to do. All I want is what is right based on the law and if that means he comes back with full seniority, I will welcome him with open arms.
 

cheryl

I started this.
Staff member
A friendly reminder:

It is fine to disagree with a different viewpoint, but please limit this to challenging the idea and not make your comments a personal challenge or make derogatory personal comments about individuals or their choices or circumstances, which disparage their ideas, opinions, their occupation or their personal situation. These examples are not exhaustive. Insulting or disparaging another member is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done. These offensive comments are contrary to the spirit of legitimate, reasoned debate and damaging to the purpose of our community.

Discussion can be animated, which is fine, but we do not welcome personal attacks, on- or off-board. Derogatory, insulting, or belittling statements, directed at other members as well as direct or indirect personal attacks are not permitted on our forum.
:backingout:
 

trickpony1

Well-Known Member
He served his country for ten years, has now come back and you're going to give him BS?

How about you guys welcome him back and thank him for his service.

I was gonna give you positive rep but the computer wouldn't let me.
I agree with you 100%
Vets don't forget.
 
Mom has spoken. next time she'll pull the car over.

As far as the original subject , with all the stuff that UPS violates legally ,ethically, and contractually, I think they get a slide on this one.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
There are exceptions to the 5 year limit, and one or more of these may apply:
(a) USERRA creates the following exceptions to the five-year limit on service in the uniformed services:
(1) Service that is required beyond five years to complete an initial period of obligated service. Some military specialties require an individual to serve more than five years because of the amount of time or expense involved in training. If the employee works in one of those specialties, he or she has reemployment rights when the initial period of obligated service is completed;
(2) If the employee was unable to obtain orders releasing him or her from service in the uniformed services before the expiration of the five-year period, and the inability was not the employee's fault;
(3)(i) Service performed to fulfill periodic National Guard and Reserve training requirements as prescribed by 10 U.S.C. 10147 and 32 U.S.C. 502(a) and 503; and,
(ii) Service performed to fulfill additional training requirements determined and certified by a proper military authority as necessary for the employee's professional development, or to complete skill training or retraining;
(4) Service performed in a uniformed service if he or she was ordered to or retained on active duty under:
(i) 10 U.S.C. 688 (involuntary active duty by a military retiree);
(ii) 10 U.S.C. 12301(a) (involuntary active duty in wartime);
(iii) 10 U.S.C. 12301(g) (retention on active duty while in captive status);
(iv) 10 U.S.C. 12302 (involuntary active duty during a national emergency for up to 24 months);
(v) 10 U.S.C. 12304 (involuntary active duty for an operational mission for up to 270 days);
(vi) 10 U.S.C. 12305 (involuntary retention on active duty of a critical person during time of crisis or other specific conditions);
(vii) 14 U.S.C. 331 (involuntary active duty by retired Coast Guard officer);
(viii) 14 U.S.C. 332 (voluntary active duty by retired Coast Guard officer);
(ix) 14 U.S.C. 359 (involuntary active duty by retired Coast Guard enlisted member);
(x) 14 U.S.C. 360 (voluntary active duty by retired Coast Guard enlisted member);
(xi) 14 U.S.C. 367 (involuntary retention of Coast Guard enlisted member on active duty); and
(xii) 14 U.S.C. 712 (involuntary active duty by Coast Guard Reserve member for natural or man-made disasters).
(5) Service performed in a uniformed service if the employee was ordered to or retained on active duty (other than for training) under any provision of law because of a war or national emergency declared by the President or the Congress, as determined by the Secretary concerned;
(6) Service performed in a uniformed service if the employee was ordered to active duty (other than for training) in support of an operational mission for which personnel have been ordered to active duty under 10 U.S.C. 12304, as determined by a proper military authority;
(7) Service performed in a uniformed service if the employee was ordered to active duty in support of a critical mission or requirement of the uniformed services as determined by the Secretary concerned; and,
(8) Service performed as a member of the National Guard if the employee was called to respond to an invasion, danger of invasion, rebellion, danger of rebellion, insurrection, or the inability of the President with regular forces to execute the laws of the United States.
(b) Service performed to mitigate economic harm where the employee's employer is in violation of its employment or reemployment obligations to him or her.
 

10yearteamster

Active Member
Yes. I'm going to schedule a meeting with my local HR rep and then get her to contact corporate HR, so they can supply me with documentation that suggest one of those applies to him.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
I'm 18yrs in at UPS and if this person has servered our country and he goes to the top when they get back, THEN THAT IS WHERE HE/SHE GOES, END OF STORY. HOW DARE YOU COME HERE AND CRY ABOUT THIS ISSUE. THIS PERSON WAS WILLING TO DIE FOR YOU AND YOUR FREEDOM. Shut the hell up and do your job and shake his hand and say thank you to this person for what he/she has done. Some may not agree but, I really don't care if you do. These people who protect the everyday American is the highest on my list and will never stop standing up for them even if it hurts your little sr. list of that should be at the top of instead of him Bull SH**. Get a life and be thankful you live in a country you can be free in to make yourself look stupid if you want, just like you have done here.

Easy there, cowboy. The OP has a valid point. Yes, I am a vet, but there is no way I would expect my employer to keep my job open for 10 years while I played soldier. Serving for 10 years means he reenlisted at least two times which would make him a career soldier.

Over, the normal enlistment is 4 years active duty and 2 years inactive reserve.

If I worked in that hub I would also be upset.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
this is what is wrong with this country , let your Local Business agent handle it .

Let's suppose you were a 9 year employee and, due to high turnover in your hub, you were the top seniority PTer, which meant you got first dibs on vacations. Along comes this guy who used to work there 10 years ago and he is not only given his job back but is now the top seniority PTer in the hub, which means he get first dibs on vacations before you. How would you feel about that?

As I said, I am a vet and appreciate this guy's service, but the legislation was written in such a way to protect the rights of both the service member and the employees. Holding a position for 5 years is fair to all involved---holding it for 10 is fair only to the service member. When I was active duty and deciding whether to reenlist for a second time I was told numerous times that if you stay for eight you may as well stay for twenty. I got out at just under 8 years. Someone who has served for 10 years is a career soldier and IMO has given up any claim to his former job and any seniority within said job.

If he wants to come back to work he should be treated like any other new employee.
 
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