Voting Fraud

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Char, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. Char

    Char New Member

    I'm certainly in no position to determine this. However, if there are some of you more versed in "labor law" there may be a way to get an investigation into voting fraud perpetrated by the union and UPS.

    I've seen complaints about the short period of time between release of details and time to vote. Not being able to wage an opposition campaign. This could also possibly be construed as a voter suppression tactic

    I've also seen complaints about less than a majority 1/3 to pass supplements or riders.

    Or perhaps the misappropriation of funds by the Union to wage a yes vote campaign.

    How about the company waging a yes vote campaign going so far as to intimidate a yes vote.

    Demand an independant party count the votes.

    Perhaps a petition making these claims and others that may be out there demanding that the National Labor Relations Board investigates. Perhaps contacting Congressional representatives.

    The only way this would work is to get people who are well versed and articulate to draft a petition and everyone on this forum that voted no to sign the petition and get signatures from other union members in your building who believe they were cheated as well. And for everyone that signs they must also call their 2 Senators and Congressman. It would be fairly easy to organize on this. Someone could create a website or Start a media campaign. Write press releases and send them out to the media.

    This will only work if people are committed.

  2. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    no prayer. No hanging chads here. why are you even raising this issue when the vote has not been announced?
  3. BrownShark

    BrownShark Banned


    You are right on the mark.

    I agree with you. A revote with ALL MEMBERS capable of voting, what I am interested in seeing are the bags of ballots that were revieved on SAT, Mon Tue (17,19,20) and what number that represents.

    A call to arms for the members.

  4. Bill

    Bill Member

    I have to agree with you that UPS and the Teamsters sold us out again. Unfortunately, This contract will pass. UPS and the Teamsters misrepresented the information that was sent to everyone's home. It was confusing at best, and knowing that the majority of the workforce is not that intelligent, they voted against their own best interests. The only big winner here is UPS. The NLRB should be called in to investigate how UPS and the Teamsters rushed this vote through without the workforce being knowledgable of exactly what they are voting for. I called the UPS pension office before the election and asked some questions that they did not want to answer. I called again yesterday, after the deadline for voting, and my questions were answered, but the pension is NOT what you are led to believe. You were manipulated into voting for a contract that benefits only UPS and to a lesser extent, the TEamsters. I will write more on this later.
  5. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Sounds like a bad case of sour grapes. If the contract does officially pass then lose with dignity. All this conspiracy manipulation mumbo jumbo reflects poorly on your character.
  6. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Hey Tie,

    Engineer's cause is APWA and any possible final resolution to the CS problems takes a lot of win out of their sails. JMO


    Interesting point and I'm not real happy about the short timeframe between handshake and vote conclusion as I still have some questions that no one can answer from either side that is written in stone. I'm certain I'm not alone either.

    That said, it would prove ironic if there were colusion between UPS and IBT (Headlines: Dreaded Foes Caught in Sexual Trist! :wink2:) but I've heard it dozens of times before but no one has ever proven it in any meaningful way. The problem you may have in challenging is our surrender of power of attorney to the union to act as our fudicary agent on this contract. If someone believes a fudicary agent has acted improper, it's normal standing to fire or dismiss that agent and go to another and then file suit against the original agent to seek damages and restitution.
    Engineer listen up my man because this is where APWA can get back in this game.

    An example would be to first off gather some evidence to show or suggest wrongdoing has occured and then on those grounds move to dismiss the IBT as fudicary agent. Once you've done so and then replace that agent if you so choose, then you may seek recourse to repair the damage if you so choose. It's possible if the chain of abuse goes back years and is proven. then vast sums of monetary funds may be required by the court to be transferred to the new agent to prevent further future damages although some initial court oversight with a trustee may be required to satisfy the judge that all things are proper.

    There may be other avenues but it may require more legal work which cost money because in the eyes of the court, you say a party has defrauded you but you want to remain with that party as your representitive. Maybe not be a good example as it's so sensative to some, but it's like being married to an physically abusive spouse and you go into court to seek the court's protection and the desire to be paid alimony and damages but you don't want a divorce nor for the abuser to even move out of the house. How far you think you would get or better yet, how much work for the attorney which costs lots of money to make a standing in law that such precedence has standing to convince the judge to rule in your favor?

    Char, it's an interesting idea but is it a legal Mount Everest to climb?
  7. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    interesting idea ? Quite a stretch. I've never seen a vote that took more then a month from start to finish. Company has always polled its people to see if they got their ballots and voteed. In the past we were told to encourage voting and to say we believe its a good offer. This time we were not told to do so. Don't sugercoat it Wkmac . Anyone crying collusion at this point is crying sour grapes.
  8. Char

    Char New Member

    Hanging chads are not the issue. Besides, if people are too stupid to punch a ballot correctly, its probably a good thing that their votes didn't count. Why raise the issue now? Because as time goes on, the opportunity to change things slip away. There are serious problems with this voting process. The yes vote campaigns conducted by the union and management are especially troubling to me. Handshake to vote time is also a problem. The people that count the votes is also a problem.

    I particularly don't care for the whole unionization concept. However, I am a part of it as are all of you. The fruits of our labor are vested in the decisions that are made by others for us. Decisions by people who are not effected by how all this turns out except for the power and control they gain. Decisions made by people who don't have to worry about their next raise, if their pensions will exist when it is their turn to access them. Decisions made by people who will get theirs regardless of what happens to us.

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2007
  9. BigUnionGuy

    BigUnionGuy Got the T-Shirt


    Let me help you with this.....

    versed...?? High School English. Did you mean to use the word "verse" as a transitive verb ??:wink2:

    I'm very familiar with labor law. Nothing I like more than to educate a part-time UPS employee. Especially, someone who starts a thread... and want's to sound like some sort of "locker room lawyer."

    1.) Voter Fraud - Gather your evidence, and present your case.

    2.) Time Period - *see above*

    3.) Less than a majority - *see above*

    4.) Misuse of funds... Company waging a campaign... *see above*

    Who do you think counts the votes.... ???

    Maybe you are that naive... and just don't know.

    How about *YOU* lead the charge...

    Create a website....

    Contact Senators... and Congressmen... the Media...

    Just look to all the negative posters on this forum... they will back you up. Maybe even fork over money to fund your cause...

    Oh... wait... that was the APWA. or TDU.

  10. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    Tie, know your role and let one thread go untouched without your love and passion for big business criminal activity. I blame the Teamsters 100% for this, not UPS, Hoffa and the gang need to go ASAP as they have been bought out.
  11. Channahon

    Channahon New Member

    Sounds like a done deal, with the exception of 5 supplementals.
    Info on UPSer'

    CHICAGO (Reuters) - Workers at United Parcel Service Inc (UPS.N: Quote, Profile , Research) represented by the Teamsters have approved a new 5-year contract, the union said on Tuesday.
    According to preliminary results, the national agreement for about 240,000 full- and part-time workers at the world's largest package delivery company was approved by a margin of 65.03 percent.

    The Teamsters said it would meet with members of some groups who voted against the agreement to identify and address their concerns.

    The new agreement will raise workers' wages, plus increase the Atlanta-based company's contributions to funds providing pensions and benefits.

    The deal also includes a provision allowing UPS to withdraw some UPS Teamsters members from their current multi-employer pension plan, the Central States Pension Fund, and establish a new jointly trusteed single-employer plan.

    Pulling out of the plan was seen by analysts as a way to reduce labor costs and improve competition against main rival FedEx Corp (FDX
  12. brown bomber

    brown bomber brown bomber

    speaking of H.S English....can you explain to me what the word.. want's..means, does it mean WANT IS....or should the word just be WANTS...not trying to show you up ....but please address your own spelling and verbage before you attempt to correct others
  13. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

  14. Griff

    Griff Active Member

  15. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

  16. pkg-king

    pkg-king New Member

    The deadline was Friday, what does it matter what came in on sat, mon, tue?
  17. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    Please give me some advice on how to shed a more positive light on my posts. Who better than you to advise me? I certainly wouldn't want anyone to know how I really feel about key issues at UPS.
  18. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Griff ,

    I thinks its beyond keeping it real. You have convinced yourself that everything about the job is negative. I challenged you to find something postive to say about your job. A reason you like or love your job. You couldn't come up with one. You have convinced yourself that saying anything positive would not be real. Every job no matter how bad has some positives about it. The negative attitude you carry is a drain. In fact you now create much of your job dissatisfaction because you are determined to be negative.
    And you can also learn something from anyone in the world. Even those you despise.
    You are determined to stay negative. You have convinced yourself that you are somehow more honest with yourself by doing so. Yet your not honest with yourself and your attitude. You're not honest with youself in dealing with how your attitude is destroying you and your life. So how much is your self percieved code of honesty really worth?
  19. Griff

    Griff Active Member

    No, you challenged me to write a post professing my love for the company. The positives of the job itself are a completely different story and that's not what you asked. The positives outweigh any and all negatives there are, that's why I still remain employed at UPS. You're kidding yourself if you think I continue to show up everyday because I have no other options. Just because I focus on the "negatives" as you claim, doesn't mean I find no enjoyment or happiness in my life. Last time I checked you were a manager not a psychologist, I could be wrong though.
  20. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    You did comment on my positive outlook in your previous posts. I believe that gives me the leeway to discuss my outlook on life and how it contrasts with the one you display here. You then told me to give you some insight on how to display a positive outlook. No psychology degree required.