Wake Up!

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by wkmac, Oct 5, 2011.

  1. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    Watch Your Back!

    I wonder how many packages at UPS end up as part of criminal activity? Could a case of civil forfeiture be made against UPS if the right legal precedent is set in stone?
  2. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    It probably could be a problem for a company such as UPS, however I doubt a local law agency would even think about taking UPS on in court. I'm not so concerned with large companies as much as I am individuals and small businesses. This is the first I had heard of "civil" forfeiture. I've had my concerns over some of the criminal forfeitures I have read about as well. Wonder why the ACLU hasn't gotten involved in this type fight?
  3. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member


    In June, Forbes had a pretty good article on civil forfeiture and this is a different animal completely from criminal forfeiture. In the case of the motel owner above, he personally committed no wrong but in effect the gov't is suggesting a motel owner must now do a background check on it's guest or face possible sanctions themselves if said guest is of questionable character later discovered. Now when a motel owner does engage in such background reviews, watch the gov't step in and say it's a violation of the guest's privacy and it is but this is a good example of how gov't impedes market action and voluntary exchange. Gibson's situation is a civil forfeiture because no crime so far has been alleged so before you pass off the UPS example as total hooey, consider Gibson's case. And going to court is questionable because the game is rigged in the State's favor.

    As to the Forbes piece, here it is and it's not definitive by any means but it'll give you a general idea if you want to look further and you should. This is a huge problem that the state has been able to keep quite because "we citizens" demand our "law and order." Those demands always have serious and unintended consequences. Hope the piece proves profitable!
  4. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Haven't read the Forbes piece yet but I did a google search on civil forfeiture to learn a little about it. There is a case in Houston over the confiscation of a pickup truck that doesn't sound right as well.

    As far as I know, no charges have been brought toward Gibson but there was a warrant and and federal affidavit alleging violations of the Lacy Act. That whole deal smacks of wrongful government actions.
  5. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Your drug war at work!

  6. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    If you are driving down the road with blocks of money in your car.........That has never happened to me or anyone I know.

    If that's the case, then it probably is drug money and the cops can have it!!

    When did you last wrap your money in saran wrap in bundles and have it in your car????????
  7. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    I known people who attend auctions and other types of special sales where cash is required at the time of the sale, especially out of state events. And yes some have had their cash grabbed because they too think that only drug dealers use cash .
  8. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Beware of the USDA.
    [h=2]The ‘Lemon Tree Lady’ Speaks Out About USDA Threats Over TREE[/h] A special HFA interview with Bridget Donovan, aka “The Lemon Tree Lady,” USDA’s Most Wanted. Or rather, her little beloved lemon tree was. Last week, we reported the story of the USDA demanding her tree three years after a quarantine, but the real USDA mode of operation is in the details below - we can’t make this stuff up!
    Did you know she was facing fines up to $60,000 and a federal raid if she did not comply? (Remember the USDA’s $4 million dollar bunnies?) They invaded her privacy, tracked her down through her purchases, and sternly warned they would get that tree one way or another. It appears she is on a “citrus watch list.”

    Three years ago, I read an article in the local newspaper about Meyer Lemon Trees. It said how easy they were to grow inside, and how they brightened up the winters with sweet smelling flowers and fruit. I love gardening, my young niece shares my love of gardening, so it seemed the perfect thing to buy. I looked online, and found the company, meyerlemontree.com. It listed the states they could not ship to, and since Wisconsin was not one of them, I felt safe in ordering. It was clearly a big company, and I did not in a million years think anything was wrong in buying from them.
    The tree arrived in great shape, and it just took off. My whole family enjoyed the flowers and the sweet smell, and it was very exciting to watch the lemons as they grew. I spent a lot of time on this tree. It clearly paid off because it was a very healthy tree. Then, three years later, out of the blue, I received a letter from the USDA.
    It Included a flyer stating that my tree would be seized, I would not be compensated by the government, and that it would be destroyed. The fact sheet also said they verified, with federal law enforcement databases, that I was at the current address. It went on to state that while I would not face any penalties “at this point” if I were found to be in possession of regulated citrus again, I could face a fine of $1100 to $60,000. The letter asked me to call the agent from the USDA to discuss this matter. It stated the issue was with citrus greening and citrus canker.

    I asked if they had a warrant in order to obtain this tree, and she said no.
    I asked what would happen if I declined to give it up, and she said no one had ever done that before and she would have to talk to her supervisor. I asked her to do so.
    I called back the next day, and she told me that while they were hoping I would voluntarily give up the tree, it wasn’t a choice, it was an order.
    I again asked what would happen, and she said she would have someone call me back. A supervisor did, and she told me that they were going to get the tree one or way or the other, and if I refused, they would quarantine it, obtain a warrant, and bring federal law enforcement officers to my house to take the tree.
  9. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

  10. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

  11. Lue C Fur

    Lue C Fur Evil member

    Its FOX news and the Judge...where's TOS to sound the alarm?
  12. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

    This is actually nothing new. Out of state blacks have been weary of traveling in the south for years for exactly this reason. Lynching may be off limits, but theft and harrassment are not.
  13. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    I can understand that but making matters worse is the drug war which makes race based harassment even the easier.
  14. bbsam

    bbsam Moderator Staff Member

  15. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    Wasn't the double standard for crack vs. rock cocaine just tossed? This was a great way to target "offenders" based on race and then pretend there wasn't a problem.
  16. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    And let's not even address the culpability of the US Gov't in even creating that market to begin with.

    Just read an interesting piece of where 86% of the US prison population are a result of committing a victimless crime. In other words, no person was to have suffered a violation of life, liberty or property at the hands of the convicted so there being no victim, where is the crime in the sense of a common law violation?

    Based on historical precedence, is it likely that at any opportunity in which we ask gov't to do anything for us, regardless of what that is or how noble, the odds of history seem to suggest an unintended consequence of our request to gov't will only increase the % of people thrown into the prison/industrial complex for committing a victimless crime.

    This also begs the question, strip away victimless crimes and only consider actual crimes against persons and is it possible that over our history of the last 100 years for example that crime as a % of population has actually gone down and thus this constitutes and reduction in the states police powers and presence in our daily lies?

    Then again, why not like we so often do in the past believe the Noble Lie and let fear grip us so self serving interests can manipulate us but then how could we then complain about the racism in the system if we refused to give it the growth media is needs to propagate.

    Hell of a dilemma is it not!

    BTW: Another gross manipulation of the African American community especially in the last 60 years was the infamous FBI program call CoIntelPro.

  17. pickup

    pickup Well-Known Member

    Wow,,, you really opened my eyes, wkmac.
  18. pickup

    pickup Well-Known Member

    Edit: in regards to civil forfeiture. Two states, I always had bad feelings in and couldn't wait to get out of them, Tennessee and Arizona. Tennessee because of the cops and Arizona cos it just don't feel right.
  19. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    DOJ: Fibbing on web sites should be a crime
  20. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    So if they're surfin' for a hubby
    who turns out to be a chubby
    There's action they can take
    To get rid of that fake!!