*********** warning letters

[dannyboy]

Sober

The issue of stops vs over under takes into consideration the number of miles driven, the number or packages on that day, COD's, and the list goes on and on.

IF the standard is set for the driver, and he went out with the sup for the OJS. HE was over allowed (per your own post) by an hour the days they rode with him. As long as he remains over by an hour, that shows me he is working just like he did when they were with him.

Sporh on the other hand can be manipulated to falsely get a higher sporh for a couple of days.

So for purpose of defining his day to day performance, over under is a more honest level playing field.

I know your objections to the fact that they can alter the allowances. But if they can demonstrate that the allowances for both periods of time are the same, then over under is the better barometer of his actual performance day to day.

With the comparison of the over under numbers, they dont have any reason to have cause for discipline.

d

 

[soberups]

Sporh on the other hand can be manipulated to falsely get a higher sporh for a couple of days.

So for purpose of defining his day to day performance, over under is a more honest level playing field.

I know your objections to the fact that they can alter the allowances. But if they can demonstrate that the allowances for both periods of time are the same, then over under is the better barometer of his actual performance day to day.

With the comparison of the over under numbers, they dont have any reason to have cause for discipline.

d

The over and underallowed can be manipulated at will by the company, with nothing more than a few keystrokes. Even if we assume that the allowance was intended to be fair...which it was not....there is no way to verify what manipulations may or may not have been done. Therefore, over/under allowed is contractually irrelevant for disciplinary purposes.

SPORH cannot be manipulated unless you add or subtract fictional stops, or alter the drivers lunch, left building or return-to-building times. Its a simple number; total delivery and pickup stops divided by on road hours. Basic arithmetic.

The facts of the case are these; the driver in question has been issued a warning letter for "failure to maintain demontrated performance" due to a 6.83% decrease in his SPORH over a one-week period following 2 consecutive OJS rides. He averaged 12.59 SPORH supervised and 11.73 SPORH the following week for an average difference of .86 SPORH.

In my post I brought up the fact that he was an hour over only to illustrate why the company was targeting him for harassment. His over/under is otherwise meaningless and has no bearing on the validity of the warning letter. It was not mentioned in the warning letter.

 

[dannyboy]

In my post I brought up the fact that he was an hour over only to illustrate why the company was targeting him for harassment. His over/under is otherwise meaningless and has no bearing on the validity of the warning letter.

The over under was the reason for the targeted ride, so it is not meaningless and does have bearing on the subject.

If he is an hour over allowed before during and after the OJS, that is the basis for my questions. IT shows that he was, did, and is doing the same job day in, day out, regardless of the OJS or not.

Yeah yeah yeah, Ive heard they can do this and that with a few keystrokes, they can change the time allowances daily.

Truth is they dont.

Yes, they do change allowances, but either after a time study, or by corp decree. over the long haul, the over under numbers is still the best way to judge one days productivity to the next. And it was because he was over by an hour a day that he got the OJS in the first place.

Now, as to defending the Sporh, all you need to do is document that he drove more miles, had more bulk, etc etc, and the Sporh will soon be a non issue if the driver is working consistently.

d

 

[UPS Lifer]

The solution to this issue isnt going to be found in the contract and it isnt going to be arbitrarily manufactured or measured by a Telematics report.

The solution is going to involve reasonable people sitting down and examining each situation on a case-by-case basis.

A guy who spends all day delivering to a mall or shopping center doesnt need to break trace at all to find food or a bathroom. Its all there within walking distance.

A guy who drives 300 miles a day in Wyoming or Death Valley probably will need to break trace to find food or a bathroom, and he might have to drive a loooong way. You cant require someone to eat lunch in the truck when its 115 in the shade or 10 below zero, and you cant tell them not to take bathroom breaks or wash their hands.

And then there are all the situations that fall in between.

IMHO the principle that should be followed is this; we should have a right to spend a reasonable amount of time driving a reasonable distance on the clock in order to eat and use a restroom. 15 miles might be reasonable for one route; one block might not be reasonable on another.

Unfortunately, management is no longer empowered to be reasonable. Under the rigid yoke of Telematics they must apply arbitrary, one-size-fits-all solutions to a wide variety of problems.

I could not have said this any better... though I do disagree with the last paragraph. I believe that applies as well to the "reasonable" language.

Dill - this really answers your question you posed to me. One other fact if you feel your BA is not representing you.... you can take a different approach. You can get legal counsel involved and you can file a complaint with the labor board. You always have options as an employee.

Even as a manager, when I felt things were going down the wrong road, I always documented my conversations in case I had to take a different approach. It didn't matter whether the person was subordinate or some one I reported to.

Sober is right in another area - SPORH vs Over/Under. Drivers are measured by their best demonstrated performance using SPORH. Over/under is obviously connected to that performance but cannot be used to discipline but SPORH can.

To me, common sense is akin to the word "reasonable". Unfortunately common sense is hard to come by in this day and age.

 

[pretzel_man]

The over and underallowed can be manipulated at will by the company, with nothing more than a few keystrokes. Even if we assume that the allowance was intended to be fair...which it was not....there is no way to verify what manipulations may or may not have been done. Therefore, over/under allowed is contractually irrelevant for disciplinary purposes.

SPORH cannot be manipulated unless you add or subtract fictional stops, or alter the drivers lunch, left building or return-to-building times. Its a simple number; total delivery and pickup stops divided by on road hours. Basic arithmetic.

The facts of the case are these; the driver in question has been issued a warning letter for "failure to maintain demontrated performance" due to a 6.83% decrease in his SPORH over a one-week period following 2 consecutive OJS rides. He averaged 12.59 SPORH supervised and 11.73 SPORH the following week for an average difference of .86 SPORH.

In my post I brought up the fact that he was an hour over only to illustrate why the company was targeting him for harassment. His over/under is otherwise meaningless and has no bearing on the validity of the warning letter. It was not mentioned in the warning letter.

I guess I never have the will power to stay out of these work measurement / allowance discussions. So here I go again....

Over the years, I've taken and worked up 100's of time studies or work measurement allowances. I've audited countess others. I've never found one intentionally wrong. I've found reasonable human errors, but never a "manipulation".

I've attended many work measurement classes and even taught a few. They were absolutely "intended" to be fair.

That being said, I agree that work measurement is not accurate enough to exactly say how well a individual driver is doing, and certainly not accurate enough for any individual day. Work measurement is meant to be 95% accurate, 95% of the time.

I also do not know the exact circumastances of the example here, but you shouldn't discount the significance of .86 SPORH. .86 SPORH times every driver in UPS equals $350M in cost.

What is the reason for the loss in SPORH. Was density better during the rides? Was the load better? Did the supervisor help him?

I don't know this driver's intentions or work habits. While you have seen some poor supervisors who use improper tactics to gain performance, I've seen some poor drivers who work hard at taking advantage of UPS.

I believe both are the exception.

P-Man

 

[dannyboy]

Both you managers have echoed Sober. That you can only use Sporh when it comes to discipline, which is not what I am trying to get across.

When it comes to the over all picture of the work day, the timed study gives a better consistent snapshot of the actual day the driver had. IT takes into account all the variables that the Sporh (which it was meant to replace) was not able to factor in. If it were not so, UPS would have never spent the money to implement it.

So the whole argument about dropping Sporh numbers while the over allowed numbers stayed the same tells me that the driver was doing the same job before, during and after the OJS ride. And as such, management should not have any valid reason to be in this drivers case.

Pman, and yes, 6% increase in labor costs is something that is very costly. If it were actually so. There are too many other factors that could have contributed to that decrease.

d

 

[pretzel_man]

Both you managers have echoed Sober. That you can only use Sporh when it comes to discipline, which is not what I am trying to get across.

When it comes to the over all picture of the work day, the timed study gives a better consistent snapshot of the actual day the driver had. IT takes into account all the variables that the Sporh (which it was meant to replace) was not able to factor in. If it were not so, UPS would have never spent the money to implement it.

So the whole argument about dropping Sporh numbers while the over allowed numbers stayed the same tells me that the driver was doing the same job before, during and after the OJS ride. And as such, management should not have any valid reason to be in this drivers case.

Pman, and yes, 6% increase in labor costs is something that is very costly. If it were actually so. There are too many other factors that could have contributed to that decrease.

d

Danny,

The problem is that we are taking things out of context. Overallowed, SPORH, Miles, etc. all paint a picture of overall performance. For any individual day, there could be variances based on circumstances.

I asked some questions that could account for differences in SPORH or overallowed. I was subtly trying to say that rather than argue that ALL measurement is meaningless, identify things that contributed to the change.

P-Man

 

[some1else]

i still dont understand how these guys get so intimidated for ojs that they run faster. there are so many ups methods, and government LAWS that you can follow that make it easy.

my last S&V my sup got so mad at me "parking legally" that he gave up after 90minutes and let me to my own devices. after having riddin with me several times he actually asked how i get routes done (not a runner and gunner but i finish the same time as the bid drivers do usually) and i simply told him that i work better when im not being harrassed!

 

[herbigharo32]

As gross as it sounds some workers actually recycle water bottles for restroom use. At my day job, I find them in the grocery receiving all the time. This company is go ho about so called "Time Theft". The one time I got hounded at UPS about going to the bathroom was my last. Simply put, the female supervisor at the time started questioning my restroom use; I had diarrhea that day. I asked her if she wanted to join me in the men's room to learn all about my digestive problems for the day Never had a problem since LOL!!

 

[brownmonster]

If doing 6 more stops throughout your day would get the supe off your back, maybe just doing it would be the easiest thing. I think most of us could absorb 6 more stops a day.

 

[scoobypanda]

After reading 4 pages of posts, I am amazed that the heart of the issue has only been danced around and around. Many posts acknowledge management's fear and many posts discuss changes in on-road production, but none put the 2 together.
A 3 day ojs is supposed to measure "a fair day's work". Numbers obsession and paranoia has eliminated the "fair" ride. ojs routes are hand picked ( lighter than usual volume, pickups on vacation, tighter area, etc..). The load itself is training video quality ( labels out and up, no stacking, no misloads, stop for stop order). OMS instructed to divert on call pickups, no airmeets, no overweight meets.
I save 8 minutes of sorting, 5 minutes looking for packages in edd, but not in load, 7 minutes running a misload or 2, 10 minutes for on call pickup and airmeet. I have just been nickel and dimed out of 1/2 hour minimum ( I think I am being generous). If I run 120 stops in 8.5 hours on ojs, 9 hours on my own after ojs, I drop from 14.11 sporh to 13.33 and you call me a thief. The gall is incredible and reminds me of the scene in "Casablanca" when Renault ( who spends every night drinking and gambling at Rick's) tells the nazis "I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"
I'm not stupid, if I drop 3 stops/hour, I'm not doing my job. If I drop .8 stops/hour it's more likely you are not doing yours. Lastly, I am saddened when I realize I will likely lose control of my bowels and or bladder as a geriatric. I am not going to lose control of my bodily functions to an on car supe right now. I love to drink coffee and water all day, if you don't like it, go work at a Nike factory in Vietnam or China.

 

[dannyboy]

P-man

I never much paid attention to Sporh, just over under. That was the constant that gave the over all snapshot of the day vs past days. I hardly ever was over allowed, and if so by just hundredths.

I also used it to justify the use of helpers during Christmas, as that is when I could prove to the sups that more helper time, less driver time and for better over/under numbers. And for many Christmas's, I could have as many as 20-25+ hours helper time, and still be under 9.5. Shame we were not on bonus, as 4-5 hours under was not unusual.

As you said, there are many variables to each day. Unless they are willing to document those, they are worthless to defending against what is most likely coming.

identify things that contributed to the change

. It would seem that as a manager, I would be interested in determining that aspect of the day before handing out paperwork? But I also realize that not all managers are wired that way, and perhaps because of time limits, choose to go the way of the heavy hand?

ALL measurement is meaningless

I wonder how much of that misconception is managements fault? After all it is management that brags about being able to change the values at will, in the chosen method of measurement. Which then in turn casts a real shadow on the reliability of the measurement to be accurate.

d

 

[UPS Lifer]

Dannyboy,

Who ever said the values can be changed at will misinformed you. There is an approval process involved and the allowances must be "slammed" into the mainframe before being effective.

However, that being said, there are ways that can improperly inflate a driver's planned day. I will not expound upon those ways but any person who has spent some time in IE would be able to figure it out. But here is the rub - The driver makes out in this case!

It is much more difficult (or easier to prove from a driver's point of view) to take time away from a driver other than taking an area off him/her which has a high allowance or a variance attached to the area. As you probably know there are stipulations in the contract regarding major changes to the route of a driver.

If there was not a logical reason why the manager or supervisor took the area off the driver, the driver would be able to make a case! A lot of this has to do with the way delivery areas are set up.

 

[dannyboy]

Who ever said the values can be changed at will misinformed you. There is an approval process involved and the allowances must be "slammed" into the mainframe before being effective.

My point exactly.

While management has spread rumors that it can change allowances at will, they really cant. All they can do is change the numbers going into the formula.

That is why, regardless of how bad the OJS time study is, at least once it is applied, it is evenhanded across the board as to the day to day running of a route.

IF a run is two hours over every day, regardless of who runs the route, then why should a driver who runs two hours over on it every day be punished, its the time study that is at fault.

The last time study they did in our building was done by some IE students at the college. Some were screwed up in both directions, some were pretty well done. Of course the ones that were screwed up in the drivers favor got a new time study, where the bad ones in the other direction did not.

What I would be more interested in as a manager would be consistency of the paid day. Yes, I know some days are a bear, others are a piece of cake. But over all, the driver should be on the money when it comes to production.

One last note. Near by was a center that was paid bonus. One of the drivers picked up a book printing company that at times would send out 2000 or more small packages with books in it. Of course the driver would make a killing on bonus, so they would change the time card to only show say 300 packages picked up, because they could not change the formula that gave the allowance for each package.

d

 

[UPS Lifer]

Dannyboy,
You made some good valid points which help to substantiate my claim that 98 out of 100 drivers should never worry about their performance if they are TRUELY giving a fair days work for a fair days pay. There are always those one or two folks with attitude problems or other issues (on both sides of the coin) that probably deserve what they get.

With that being said, if you are within the normal parameters of standard deviation, you should be able to easily defend your position if the need arises.

I have always been of the mindset that any driver or other employee who is making the effort to do the job and wants help I would be there for them at all costs. I also don't feel I am in the minority on this.

On the other side of the coin...
When I did cross paths with someone who had an "attitude", I tried to understand why they had felt that way before butting heads with them.

I also agree with you on the consistency of the paid day. It should also be noted that a reasonable manager should establish a best demonstrated performance level with an employee, get a commitment and there should be an ongoing dialog with the supervisor and employee. The SPORH commitment should be an average and the management team should be looking at the consistency over time and whether the performance is stable or trending up or down.

As for a stop that gives you an abnormal amount of smalls on rare occasion the supervisor or manager should look at the time it took to handle the stop without counting "help" into the equation and give the proper piece count based on that.

If the stop gives smalls on a regular basis a variance should be built in to the stop. When I was a manager - we had a special unit that was used to account for smalls. I am not sure if that is district to district or not.

I always enjoy reading your thoughtful and insightful posts.

 

[sano]

Dannyboy, Pretzel and Lifer, It is a pleasure reading over your discussion. Very informative and well thought out positions. It is always nice to run across a thread that does not disintegrate into snarky name calling by the 6th post.

 

[dannyboy]

Lifer

Thank you for the comments. I too enjoy a conversation with someone that is not always negative.

I find negativity breeds all sorts of problems, both for the hourly and management alike.

As for butting heads with someone, that is alright as long as it is productive in the long run.

Tie and I had one of those back in I believe 01. Best I can remember, it was a knockdown smack down (something that probably would be deleted now, and for sure get both of us banned), but as a result of further communications, we have developed a great respect for each other. Actually, after talking with him on the phone, If I ever get up that way again, the first beer is on me, and I will be the designated driver.

Something you pointed out

There are always those one or two folks with attitude problems or other issues (on both sides of the coin) that probably deserve what they get.

as a shop steward for several years, and as an employee for over 33, I find that true in both camps. And while it fell to me to help the employee keep his job, there were some that were on self-destruct the whole time.

One in particular comes to mind. Walking off the job, mowing lawns for customers while on company time, falsifying his mileage, intensionally missing whole business areas during business hours, while delivering residential stops during business hours, and the list goes on and on. Longest suspension was a bit over 6 months. And that only covers his time as a driver. Right after I left, they terminated him for stealing time. This one stuck. But as a practical matter, he should have been gone 6 years before. It was only by the good graces of the management team that it went on that long.

And as the thread went on the steward that tried to make a point of "he couldn't be fired over production issues", we all know that as long as you truly try to do the job the best you can, there are those that will push the issue, and get burned.

d

 

[upsgrunt]

My point exactly.

While management has spread rumors that it can change allowances at will, they really cant. All they can do is change the numbers going into the formula.

That is why, regardless of how bad the OJS time study is, at least once it is applied, it is evenhanded across the board as to the day to day running of a route.

IF a run is two hours over every day, regardless of who runs the route, then why should a driver who runs two hours over on it every day be punished, its the time study that is at fault.

The last time study they did in our building was done by some IE students at the college. Some were screwed up in both directions, some were pretty well done. Of course the ones that were screwed up in the drivers favor got a new time study, where the bad ones in the other direction did not.

What I would be more interested in as a manager would be consistency of the paid day. Yes, I know some days are a bear, others are a piece of cake. But over all, the driver should be on the money when it comes to production.

One last note. Near by was a center that was paid bonus. One of the drivers picked up a book printing company that at times would send out 2000 or more small packages with books in it. Of course the driver would make a killing on bonus, so they would change the time card to only show say 300 packages picked up, because they could not change the formula that gave the allowance for each package.

d

Regarding the bonus driver that would pick up 2000 smalls- I am in a bonus center and it is called "coded out" here; meaning you might get credited 1 for 2 or 1 for 3 and so on. For every three you pick up at that stop you only get credit for 1. I have a problem with this for one main reason. If a driver were to pick up 2000- 50 pounders should they get additional time? Of course they never will! UPS gets the revenue on every one of those packages, why should the driver be punished just because the numbers fall in their favor? I call that a "perk" and it falls in line with what we drivers are always told when we question a time allowance- "it's all figured in".

 

[soberups]

...98 out of 100 drivers should never worry about their performance if they are TRUELY giving a fair days work for a fair days pay. There are always those one or two folks with attitude problems or other issues (on both sides of the coin) that probably deserve what they get.

With that being said, if you are within the normal parameters of standard deviation, you should be able to easily defend your position if the need arises.

The question is....why should the driver who received this warning letter even have to defend his postion in the first place?

The guy isnt a knucklehead or a slacker. He has (or at least had) a great attitude, he works hard, works safe, helps out the other drivers in his loop, and pretty much shows up to work every day and gets the job done.

His methods and workpace were documented during his OJS as being satisfactory, yet he was still an hour overallowed. The problem is not him it is the allowance, and management knows it, yet they refuse to fix it.

IMHO, the -6.73% or -.86 SPORH he produced the week following the OJS is well within the normal parameters of standard deviation and to haul an otherwise good driver into the office and issue him a warning letter over this is downright stupid.

 

[some1else]

//I am in a bonus center and it is called "coded out" here; meaning you might get credited 1 for 2 or 1 for 3 and so on.//

do they do this for bulk deliveries as well? we have a route with a "BIG" bulk stop either moose/pup sized. whenever i used to do that route it would be WAY under as in 2-3 hours... last time i ran only .25 under going the same speed/ other factors as always...