Weingarten

ski4077

New Member
Ok, need some input here. Without getting into boring, however relevant details, I was called into the office by my center manager. Walking in I asked if I needed my rep present. He said "no, no, I just need to ask you about something". Turns out it was an investigation about a crash. The next day I was told I was terminated (with a rep present this time). Yes I filed a grievance and have my local hearing next week. I have been with the company less than 4 years (only 2 years full time). I have 2 write-ups on file (both within the first 3 months of going full time). Only while doing my own research awaiting my hearing did I discover my Weingarten Rights. While doing said research I discovered it was my responsibility to invoke my Weingarten Rights. This is my first union job, so I was unaware. Does anyone feel I have any recourse or suggested action I should take?
 

Inthegame

Well-Known Member
NM Art 4 gives you a superior right than the terms of Weingarten. If you asked if you need a steward and weren't provided same and your local union has made it clear to the employer that that's the process, the center manager friend'd up.
Your rights now include the grievance procedure. Your BA should remind UPS they violated your rights to have union representation present at any investigatory interview. This should be part of your defense, however if you failed to report an accident (you knew you had), it could get dicey.
Tell your reps every detail of the case and be 100% truthful.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
He said "no, no, I just need to ask you about something".

You asked if you needed a Steward and, at this point you were OK to walk in without a Steward. You had no idea of what the meeting was about.

Turns out it was an investigation about a crash.

As soon as your center manager brought up an issue about a crash you had, you should then have requested a Steward. I know, hindsight is 20/20.

As @Inthegame said, your center manager screwed up. He should have known that he was investigating your crash and should have had a Steward present.

At this point, the screw up on both your parts will not negate the discharge since there was no discipline issued during the initial meeting with you.

I would hope that your BA makes it clear to your center manager that in the future, he needs to bring in a Steward if he is even questioning a employee that "may" lead to discipline.

Does anyone feel I have any recourse or suggested action I should take?

Nope. You grieved it and that is all you can do, besides being upfront with your BA about what happened.

One question.

Were you terminated for an accident that you had and reported or were you terminated for an unreported accident?
 

BrownMonk

Old fart Package Car Driver
The manager is not obligated to tell you your rights. If you are being wished a good morning from management, ask for a steward.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
The manager is not obligated to tell you your rights. If you are being wished a good morning from management, ask for a steward.

No he is not, but any good local has an agreement with management that they will have a Steward present for any meeting that has even the slightest possibility of discipline.

I know, there are some locals out there who are afraid of UPS.

This should be in the master and the responsibility to have a Steward present should rest on UPS.

That is the way it is here.
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
But a denied right due to coercion by a manager is both a violation of Weingarten and our contract.

Yes it is, and I agree, but the OP did not ask for a Steward and was denied.

He asked the center manager if he needed a Steward, and there was no discipline issued during that meeting. Did the meeting lead to discipline? I get it. That situation would not happen here.

Many employees don't know their rights and UPS gets away with a lot. I know, everybody should know the contract and our rights, but this is the real world.

Best solution is to have an understanding between the local and UPS, without escalating every single issue to discipline and a grievance.

In this case, I think the center manager knew that discipline was coming and he should have had a Steward involved in the initial meeting.
 

wide load

Starting wage is a waste of time.
Yes it is, and I agree, but the OP did not ask for a Steward and was denied.

He asked the center manager if he needed a Steward, and there was no discipline issued during that meeting. Did the meeting lead to discipline? I get it. That situation would not happen here.

Many employees don't know their rights and UPS gets away with a lot. I know, everybody should know the contract and our rights, but this is the real world.

Best solution is to have an understanding between the local and UPS, without escalating every single issue to discipline and a grievance.

In this case, I think the center manager knew that discipline was coming and he should have had a Steward involved in the initial meeting.
I agree with you. A halfway decent BA could resolve this.
 

35years

Gravy route
I always ask...
"Could this meeting lead to discipline?"

If they say no, then I enter the office.
If they ask about anything remotely related to incorrect behavior I tell them I can't say any more without a Steward present.
That way I know what they are fishing for without giving them any info.

If they say yes, then I demand a Steward before any more is said on either side.

I saved me once, Division manager told me before the meeting it would not lead to discipline. As soon as the questions became specific about my previous day I demanded a Steward. Center Manager became all upset because I would not answer any questions and said I would be suspended or fired based on what they already knew. I said... No, I was told it would not lead to discipline. Division Manager shut the meeting down and told the Center Manager no discipline would be forthcoming.
 

ski4077

New Member
My hearing with the labor manager was a few weeks back now. The outcome was a 30 day suspension and a last chance agreement. The LM said he would type up the agreement and sent it to my center manager. I returned to work 9/22. I saw my sup in browns and asked if he was riding with me. He told me "technically" this whole thing wasn't called in as a crash, so he didn't have to ride with me. But I was suspended for dishonesty/not reporting a crash. Go figure. The BA told me to take the deal, so of course I did. When I asked him about the agreement he said it would basically say I know what I did and I won't do it again, or I would immediately be terminated. So I work 9/21 on my own, no sup. I come in the 22 and have the sign the agreement. It's a full page basically saying I'm a piece of :censored2:, unsafe, don't follow methods, yadda yadda yadda. It reads as if I even fart wrong ever again I'm GONE. Any thoughts?
 

Benben

Working on a new degree, Masters in BS Detecting!
A crash that is "not a crash"??? I don't mean to be an arse so please don't take it this way, but can you say anything or tell us anything so we don't have to go through what you have had to deal with the last 30+ days please? It never ceases to amaze me the crap they come up with and if this is something new or something so rare a 15 year vet doesn't know about it I would like to arm myself with info before having to deal with it.
 
My hearing with the labor manager was a few weeks back now. The outcome was a 30 day suspension and a last chance agreement. The LM said he would type up the agreement and sent it to my center manager. I returned to work 9/22. I saw my sup in browns and asked if he was riding with me. He told me "technically" this whole thing wasn't called in as a crash, so he didn't have to ride with me. But I was suspended for dishonesty/not reporting a crash. Go figure. The BA told me to take the deal, so of course I did. When I asked him about the agreement he said it would basically say I know what I did and I won't do it again, or I would immediately be terminated. So I work 9/21 on my own, no sup. I come in the 22 and have the sign the agreement. It's a full page basically saying I'm a piece of :censored2:, unsafe, don't follow methods, yadda yadda yadda. It reads as if I even fart wrong ever again I'm GONE. Any thoughts?
Just keep your nose clean. I've seen people still get into trouble after a last chance agreement and still keep their job.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
My hearing with the labor manager was a few weeks back now. The outcome was a 30 day suspension and a last chance agreement. The LM said he would type up the agreement and sent it to my center manager. I returned to work 9/22. I saw my sup in browns and asked if he was riding with me. He told me "technically" this whole thing wasn't called in as a crash, so he didn't have to ride with me. But I was suspended for dishonesty/not reporting a crash. Go figure. The BA told me to take the deal, so of course I did. When I asked him about the agreement he said it would basically say I know what I did and I won't do it again, or I would immediately be terminated. So I work 9/21 on my own, no sup. I come in the 22 and have the sign the agreement. It's a full page basically saying I'm a piece of :censored2:, unsafe, don't follow methods, yadda yadda yadda. It reads as if I even fart wrong ever again I'm GONE. Any thoughts?
It sounds like you shouldn't have said anything to management without a steward present. And it also sounds like the usual negative aspects of the UPS/union buddy system. These are times where the red tape of dealing with two crooked corporations only hurts people. A more satisfactory result may have come through lawyering up.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
Just keep your nose clean. I've seen people still get into trouble after a last chance agreement and still keep their job.
Agree, there's basically no such thing as a "last chance agreement" anyway it's just a way to demonstrate how serious they are about your behavior. They still have to follow the disciplinary procedure spelled out in the contract for any future violations on your part and signing that paper won't change that.
 
Agree, there's basically no such thing as a "last chance agreement" anyway it's just a way to demonstrate how serious they are about your behavior. They still have to follow the disciplinary procedure spelled out in the contract for any future violations on your part and signing that paper won't change that.
The only thing I noticed is that, if you friend* up again you seem to get a bigger punishment.

As always, there is always more to the story than what is posted.
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
Agree, there's basically no such thing as a "last chance agreement" anyway it's just a way to demonstrate how serious they are about your behavior. They still have to follow the disciplinary procedure spelled out in the contract for any future violations on your part and signing that paper won't change that.


I would have to respectfully disagree.


I have personally negotiated "last chance agreements" for part-time employees

that have had chronic attendance problems and multiple suspensions.

Usually, it was the company that was reluctant. The only reason I had any success

with that, is the company agreed they were a good employee....

when they showed up for work. ;)


Last chance agreements are not uncommon in Union environments.

I had a Union Police Officer (ex Marine) who had several "incidents" of

being overly aggressive. The last one.... made the news.


It was the Chief of Police, that suggested it.

The Chief didn't want to lose him, but there was public pressure.

He was (and still is) a good officer, with a different outlook on the job.


Any thoughts?


Yep.

The verbiage and terms, should have been spelled out at the hearing.

Not after the fact.


Don't think that Weingarten rights are some sort of "protective badge".

Things could have been different.... depending on the level of experience

your Union Steward has. But, don't blame them for the situation.



-Bug-
 
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