What came first, disgruntled hourly’s or management?

[kingOFchester]

After working for the big brown for about a year and a half, I am coming to the realization that things aren’t all peaches and cream at the brown. Shocker, I know. LOL. My first year at UPS was spent doing preload in one area of a large building. Not much contact with anyone other then my Part time sups and the hourly’s that I worked alongside of. Now that I have worked other parts of the building, including Saturday air and peak season driving, I am starting to see what many of you have spoken about. A few weeks ago I approached HR about getting some driver shorts for my Saturday driving. The reaction I got was as if I had asked for AC, power steering and a radio installed in the truck. I was treated like I had no business asking for them and that I was disrupting their important day for something of little consequence to them. I also was asked if I would drive an air shuttle Saturday evenings from our building to the airport. I can use the extra income and so I said sure. I was told to go the airport to get ID. It has been 2 weeks of calling, driving 45 minutes out to the air hub on numerous occasions and basically all on me to get the fingerprints and ID badge. No one knows anything when ever I call. No one knows why I am there at the air hub even though I had appointments. I have succeeded in getting it done, but the attitudes I have been exposed to leave a lot to be desired. There are other incidences such as these, but it got me wondering. Where does it come from? Upper management leaning on lower management? Why are there so many miserable people at UPS. From drivers to part-timers to management. What is your take? Is it caused by the animosity between the union and exempt employees? Is it just because of the need to keep the stock holders happy?

 

[dilligaf]

Lord only knows. That's like asking about the chicken and the egg.

I do know one thing. It's not likely to improve any time soon. This economy is causing more major problems between mgt and hourly. The union is doing not one GD thing to help. I am so fed up with my steward and BA that I could just spit. I'm sick of my steward making GD deals with the company or just blatantly violating my seniority to the stewards own gain.

I just got my Rocky Mtn Teamster newsletter. Here are a few stats. These stats are from 1 BA and not even my BA.

2008

Sup working violations 236 filed
total amt pd $25,249.

9.5 violations 207 filed
53 pay violations=$6391

Seniority violations 136 filed
total pd $24,110


Can you believe this crap? And this doesn't even touch the tip of the iceberg. The total for all pd grievances = $92,603. This is for 1 BA covering a dozen ctrs.


And the company can't friend.... understand why we as hourlies have a bad attitude.


Hey Mr. Shareholder, why don't you pass these stats around the table and tell the company to straighten up and stop violating our contract. You want the company to earn a profit, how about starting here.

 

[trickpony1]

Premise: no company hires angry, hateful and bitter employees.
Premise: most managers come from the hourly ranks.
Premise: most people go into management to get out of package cars.

Conclusion: People become angry, hateful and bitter sometime after being hired. Most are hired as hourly and them go into management because it is the lesser of two evils and to survive and be somewhat immune to the harassment. Some managers make it high up the food chain.

Opinion: I think disgruntled hourly's came first.

 

[trplnkl]

Premise: no company hires angry, hateful and bitter employees.
Premise: most managers come from the hourly ranks.
Premise: most people go into management to get out of package cars.

Conclusion: People become angry, hateful and bitter sometime after being hired. Most are hired as hourly and them go into management because it is the lesser of two evils and to survive and be somewhat immune to the harassment. Some managers make it high up the food chain.

Opinion: I think disgruntled hourly's came first.

Not saying I disagree with any of your post, but would like to ask a question.
What, who, why or how did the hourlys become disgruntled, if management didn't play a heavy hand in the process?

 

[sortaisle]

Yes it's a giant cluster, and yes it is largely to do with answering to the shareholders. When I first started, my part time supervisors used to walk around the building with a box that had a shoe print on it looking for the guy who stepped on it. When we went public, the supervisors were standing on the boxes pushing the flow down the chute to make things go faster. The upper management are making the numbers all but impossible for our middle and lower management to achieve. So to make the numbers work, they do what looks to be in our mind the most ridiculous decisions in history. They don't make decisions based off of what makes the customers happy, but what makes the numbers work. There might be other reasons why they do this, but in the end, it's just to make the numbers work. UPS is a great organization, don't get me wrong, they do things that other shipping companies only dream of. But they are on a slippery slope and have got to figure out how they're going to be solvent in the future. I'm sorry, but we're a customer based business and the customers must come first not the numbers. The numbers should be dictated by customer satisfaction not the numbers dictating when the customers get their stuff so some shareholders are happy with our numbers. It's the one giant flaw in an otherwise rocking company.

 

[kingOFchester]

Yes it's a giant cluster, and yes it is largely to do with answering to the shareholders. When I first started, my part time supervisors used to walk around the building with a box that had a shoe print on it looking for the guy who stepped on it. When we went public, the supervisors were standing on the boxes pushing the flow down the chute to make things go faster. The upper management are making the numbers all but impossible for our middle and lower management to achieve. So to make the numbers work, they do what looks to be in our mind the most ridiculous decisions in history. They don't make decisions based off of what makes the customers happy, but what makes the numbers work. There might be other reasons why they do this, but in the end, it's just to make the numbers work. UPS is a great organization, don't get me wrong, they do things that other shipping companies only dream of. But they are on a slippery slope and have got to figure out how they're going to be solvent in the future. I'm sorry, but we're a customer based business and the customers must come first not the numbers. The numbers should be dictated by customer satisfaction not the numbers dictating when the customers get their stuff so some shareholders are happy with our numbers. It's the one giant flaw in an otherwise rocking company.

Great post!!
I will add that there is a balance between the two (numbers and customers) to give you the greatest profit. I guess a great question would be, what would the formula look like? At what point does working towards customer satisfaction give you less income VS working towards higher numbers? At what cost does higher numbers hurt the bottom line? At what cost does customer service hurt the bottom line if you have lower production?

Interesting enigma.

Drivers deal with the customers face to face. Drivers are the ones that have to deliver the mangled box with the foot prints and poor re-tape job to the customers. In the drivers eyes, the customer is of utmost importance.

Managers deal with reports and numbers day in and day out. They are the ones that have to justify why today’s numbers are worse then yesterdays. In the manager eyes the production numbers are of utmost importance. It is difficult to pin a lost account on a single manager. Easy to point the finger at a manager who has a lower production then "planned". What you get is managers that care more about production then anything else.

 

[Re-Raise]

Premise: most people go into management to get out of package cars.

Not true here. Nobody where I work would go from a driver's job to management anymore. This may be part of the current disconnect between hourlies and management.

Managers often don't have the experience to understand the concerns of their employees. The person currently dispatching my center couldn't find some of the towns I deliver to on a map.

Often the person willing to go into management here is the lowest seniority employee that has nothing to lose by making the jump.

I suppose this could be true if they couldn't handle the physical part of the job. That also makes it tough to ask how high when they say jump when they can't physically do the job.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

The only ones I see go into management here ( I am generally talking P/T management)

are the kids who think it looks good on their resume and planning to go get a full-time management job in the future, avoiding any school work. foolishly

the adults - who cannot stand the kids in charge who have no idea what theyre doing or how to handle people. The adults get frustrated and think becoming a P/T supervisor is the "way out" of doing union work, which is too physically difficult or also thinking they can change the system and the company in some way. Others its a power thing I have noticed - some go into supervisor ranks simply to feel superior. (this applies to the kids as well, but moreso the older ones) Usually it's a combo of the 3.

And of course there are things such as the pay raise that come into play.

 

[Sammie]

After working for the big brown for about a year and a half, I am coming to the realization that things aren’t all peaches and cream at the brown. Shocker, I know. LOL. Where does it come from? Upper management leaning on lower management? Why are there so many miserable people at UPS. From drivers to part-timers to management. What is your take? Is it caused by the animosity between the union and exempt employees? Is it just because of the need to keep the stock holders happy?

King,

I started there in the mid 70's and left in 2005, a few months shy of 30
years. As the company grew, it became more impersonal. And it has a
culture unique unto itself. After working for the govt. and a family owned
business, I was always amazed at the dissention within Brown. Even tho it takes the sum of all parts to get a job done, anything that went wrong
resulted in the package centers who blamed the hub who blamed feeders who blamed I.E. who blamed the airport. Crazy.

And as far as being a happy/ unhappy employee? With a few mgmt exceptions along the way who had the common sense not to, Brown rules with an iron fist. That is how they feel they can get the work out of you. But I've got some news. That only worked in the days of slave labor. We're in the service industry, folks. Content employees + satisfied customers = Financial Performance. Happy drivers/sales people who feel good when they come to work and go face to face with hundreds of daily customers, having millions of happy conversations that lead to thousands of happy sales.


Now how do we feel about the company again? Sorry I asked. Tell me one more time how to answer all those questions on the ERI.

Unlike state govt, where mgmt is tested every year to see if they
have kept up with information and can therefore do the work
(or face a demotion or dismissal), inept mgrs do not come with expiration dates stamped on their heads. They remain irregardless.

Another big problem is Corporate Governance (which happened when we went public in 1999 and what Jim Casey wanted to avoid. He went public in 1929 but bought all the stock back in 1933). Going public gave us extra cash, but we've become so anal about profits. We have to be. We've got shareholders to answer to and our finances are public record. How efficiently a pkg can be delivered affects profits so run your ***** off. Rising overhead costs hurt earnings so bring your own TP to work and proudly wear that Made In China uniform.

Hey, you asked!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RozUPS]

I'd like to know why HR offered you the air shuttle trip without it being offered to other sat drivers with more seniority

 

[kingOFchester]

I'd like to know why you were offered the air shuttle job without it being offered to other sat drivers with more seniority

Hey Roz, I don't blame you....but don't get pissed at me. I would be happy to walk from it for a fellow coworker.

Also, there is more going on with the Sat in our center then drivers know. They said they are going to start cutting "under performing drivers".

Last, I have been cut for the last 3 weeks, to be sent home with 30 minutes of work at my preload rate. BA is looking into Sat a little closer.

 

[Catatonic]

Lord only knows. That's like asking about the chicken and the egg.


Hey Mr. Shareholder, why don't you pass these stats around the table and tell the company to straighten up and stop violating our contract. You want the company to earn a profit, how about starting here.

As a topic of conversation (might start another thread)...

Just curious and never thought about it before now that a contract is between two parties so that means that both parties can violate the contract but all I ever hear about is the company violating the contract.
Is the contract between UPS and the Union or between UPS and it's bargaining unit employees?

When an employee takes 5 minutes extra for their lunch or a break, is that considered "violating our contract".

How about when an employee is disciplined? Is that because they violated the contract?

Interesting subject ... what do you think?

 

[trplnkl]

As a topic of conversation (might start another thread)...

Just curious and never thought about it before now that a contract is between two parties so that means that both parties can violate the contract but all I ever hear about is the company violating the contract.
Is the contract between UPS and the Union or between UPS and it's bargaining unit employees?
The contract is actually between the company and the hourly workers, who are represented by the union. The union signs the contract on our behalf. I know you already knew this and were just checking to see if we were paying attention.
When an employee takes 5 minutes extra for their lunch or a break, is that considered "violating our contract".
Yes it is.

How about when an employee is disciplined? Is that because they violated the contract?
Not always, sometimes there are reasons outside of the contract. Sometimes, crap gets made up on the run for bogus discipline. That's why we have a grievance structure.
Interesting subject ... what do you think?

something tells me you already knew that too.

 

[dilligaf]

As a topic of conversation (might start another thread)...

Just curious and never thought about it before now that a contract is between two parties so that means that both parties can violate the contract but all I ever hear about is the company violating the contract.
Is the contract between UPS and the Union or between UPS and it's bargaining unit employees?
I would have to say it is between the company and the bargaining units with the maintenace of the contract held by the union and the company.

When an employee takes 5 minutes extra for their lunch or a break, is that considered "violating our contract".
I would have to say yes it is. Unless there was prior approval. If I myself went over my allowed break/lunch I would make sure and put it under an unpaid time to account for that time. This would avoid the unecessary stealing time accusations.

How about when an employee is disciplined? Is that because they violated the contract?
That would have to be determined on a case by case basis. I know we have many drivers that violate the contract and company policy. Many don't get caught or if they are caught it is swept under the rug. We as bargaining units are held to a high standard. The company should be held to the same high standard.
Interesting subject ... what do you think?

I think this might deserve it's own thread.

 

[kingOFchester]

As a topic of conversation (might start another thread)...

Just curious and never thought about it before now that a contract is between two parties so that means that both parties can violate the contract but all I ever hear about is the company violating the contract.
Is the contract between UPS and the Union or between UPS and it's bargaining unit employees? Between UPS and employee with the union being the one doing the representation.

When an employee takes 5 minutes extra for their lunch or a break, is that considered "violating our contract". With out a doubt, as long as they got paid for the extra 5.

How about when an employee is disciplined? Is that because they violated the contract? Should be.....reality, probably not always.

Interesting subject ... what do you think?

 

[PASinterference]

I think UPS is in serious trouble when it comes to employee relations.As stated in previous posts,its all about numbers.Example:My new minimum is last year's max but they still want sales leads and I'm stealing time if I cant make 9.5.The only happy employees I see are in upper mgmt or retired.Its almost like these guys sit around a table all day and discuss how to make our jobs more difficult.We are already business development,car wash if you want to see out of your windshield,customer service,United Way lifeblood,and Im treated like an ungrateful SOB if I dont like it(Walmart is hiring)Its sad to me that this company went from a delivery service to a statistic analysis company that also delivers packages.

 

[Braveheart]

When I got hired I loved UPS. I had to go through some real jerks hear and there.

Over the years of lies, broken promises, harassment, and retaliation the managers have turned me into what I am today.

The managers that are still respectful continue to get my respect. Those that go the extra mile get my forgiveness and understanding when they screw up.