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What is L.P. thinking?
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<blockquote data-quote="dannyboy" data-source="post: 415256" data-attributes="member: 484"><p>tie</p><p> </p><p>couple of things</p><p> </p><p>1 the thief did leave the property. he was in the parking lot. how did he get it out of the building with security?</p><p> </p><p>2 when knucklehead bought the phone, it was not in a box. it was not a new phone. it was a used phone. much like a car that is driven off the parking lot right after you buy it. the value drops by 20-30% the minute it hits the pavement and you signed the paperwork. further more, if it was a delivery to a phone outlet, it could very well be a refurbished phone which would have a much lower retail sale price than a new phone. </p><p> </p><p>3 the company, in a moment of honesty, put a real value of $400 dollars on the phone, much much less than the minimum needed for felony theft</p><p>now, he was charged with felony theft. by their own admission it is not felony theft. so why did lp fudge the numbers to try and get a felony conviction?</p><p> </p><p>4 did you ever think that red might have had the guy that stole it,give him the statement as to what actually happened? as a shop steward gathering all the information on the case, including interviews with all the parties that have participated or have direct knowledge on the matter is critical to get to the truth of the matter.</p><p> </p><p>5 again when the knucklehead bought the phone, the seller of the phone lied. he stated that he had family issues and had to sell the phone to come up with money. seen that happen many times while at ups. guys get in trouble, in over their heads, need money pretty bad. so instead of using a pawn shop, they try to sell items to fellow workers. so while the phone might have been stolen, he paid for the phone thinking it was legit.</p><p> </p><p>6 the last one that i have been repeating. a jury made up of equal numbers of union and company members listened to the EVIDENCE. they heard both sides. i am sure that the lp department has some experience in getting thieves out of our company, and are not inept at their job? and this jury, after listening to the evidence ruled by majority that he was not guilty of theft, or stealing. something you have admitted by default when you brushed it off as easy.</p><p> </p><p>ive been to panel hearings. easy is not anywhere close to what they are. but for union officials that hate thieves, (i know, some of them are thieves themselves) and company management types to both agree that he is innocent, they had to have had overwhelming evidence that he was not guilty. or the company overshot the headlights with the charges?</p><p> </p><p>as for the buying of stolen goods, and possession of same, it is interesting. if i buy something that i in good faith believe is legit, but turns out to be stolen, what are my legal liabilities? a fence that buys and sells items that are stolen, that is one thing. but a stupid guy that makes a boneheaded decision.... there is a big difference. </p><p> </p><p>everything the guy did points to stupidity, but not criminal intent. </p><p> </p><p>and if you were to fire people in the grounds of stupidity, i would suggest ups might have to shut down a week or two to find replacements.</p><p> </p><p>as for the lp guy and the charges, as a shop steward, i would also have defended the guy against the theft charges. had it been possession of stolen goods, that is another story with different input and outcomes.</p><p> </p><p>but instead we have to deal with the case at hand, with the charges at hand, not some other tangent of what he knew or didnt know, and the 1000 value for only 100. that is all irrelevant to the discussion of being fired for felony theft. which is what this was about.</p><p> </p><p>btw, i do admire your passion for the job, it is what makes you special.</p><p> </p><p>red, while there are times i totally disagree with you, i think you did the right thing by defending the guy. might be stupid. hell, he might actually be a thief. who knows. but the proof is plain, he did not steal the phone, and you defended him against those charges. and did so in a way that proved beyond doubt that he did not steal from ups.</p><p> </p><p>let us know how it turns out at the hearing.</p><p> </p><p>One question tie. is possession of stolen goods a charge that would have lp call the police and have an employee arrested for? or is it something that would be handled differently? and why would a person savvy in theft of items with serial numbers, register a phone with his employer knowing that the phone would pop up later on as a stolen phone? i dont see criminals running out to the police and registering guns that they have stolen, just to make it look like they didnt do it. that is a pretty big stretch of the imagination.</p><p> </p><p>i would think the thief would not want that type of attention drawn to himself?</p><p> </p><p>best</p><p> </p><p>d ps, as far as the disappointment, sorry. that will be something you will have to deal with. charge him with possession, you and i would agree. charge him with felony theft, when you let the actual thieves quit? what is the guy supposed to do, live the rest of his life as a felon when he is in fact not? you want to be the one that signs off on him having a felony record when the actual felon you let walk? </p><p> </p><p>that is not the tie i know and respect. that is not the one that i have spoken with that has human compassion and a driving force for justice. i am the one that is disappointed</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dannyboy, post: 415256, member: 484"] tie couple of things 1 the thief did leave the property. he was in the parking lot. how did he get it out of the building with security? 2 when knucklehead bought the phone, it was not in a box. it was not a new phone. it was a used phone. much like a car that is driven off the parking lot right after you buy it. the value drops by 20-30% the minute it hits the pavement and you signed the paperwork. further more, if it was a delivery to a phone outlet, it could very well be a refurbished phone which would have a much lower retail sale price than a new phone. 3 the company, in a moment of honesty, put a real value of $400 dollars on the phone, much much less than the minimum needed for felony theft now, he was charged with felony theft. by their own admission it is not felony theft. so why did lp fudge the numbers to try and get a felony conviction? 4 did you ever think that red might have had the guy that stole it,give him the statement as to what actually happened? as a shop steward gathering all the information on the case, including interviews with all the parties that have participated or have direct knowledge on the matter is critical to get to the truth of the matter. 5 again when the knucklehead bought the phone, the seller of the phone lied. he stated that he had family issues and had to sell the phone to come up with money. seen that happen many times while at ups. guys get in trouble, in over their heads, need money pretty bad. so instead of using a pawn shop, they try to sell items to fellow workers. so while the phone might have been stolen, he paid for the phone thinking it was legit. 6 the last one that i have been repeating. a jury made up of equal numbers of union and company members listened to the EVIDENCE. they heard both sides. i am sure that the lp department has some experience in getting thieves out of our company, and are not inept at their job? and this jury, after listening to the evidence ruled by majority that he was not guilty of theft, or stealing. something you have admitted by default when you brushed it off as easy. ive been to panel hearings. easy is not anywhere close to what they are. but for union officials that hate thieves, (i know, some of them are thieves themselves) and company management types to both agree that he is innocent, they had to have had overwhelming evidence that he was not guilty. or the company overshot the headlights with the charges? as for the buying of stolen goods, and possession of same, it is interesting. if i buy something that i in good faith believe is legit, but turns out to be stolen, what are my legal liabilities? a fence that buys and sells items that are stolen, that is one thing. but a stupid guy that makes a boneheaded decision.... there is a big difference. everything the guy did points to stupidity, but not criminal intent. and if you were to fire people in the grounds of stupidity, i would suggest ups might have to shut down a week or two to find replacements. as for the lp guy and the charges, as a shop steward, i would also have defended the guy against the theft charges. had it been possession of stolen goods, that is another story with different input and outcomes. but instead we have to deal with the case at hand, with the charges at hand, not some other tangent of what he knew or didnt know, and the 1000 value for only 100. that is all irrelevant to the discussion of being fired for felony theft. which is what this was about. btw, i do admire your passion for the job, it is what makes you special. red, while there are times i totally disagree with you, i think you did the right thing by defending the guy. might be stupid. hell, he might actually be a thief. who knows. but the proof is plain, he did not steal the phone, and you defended him against those charges. and did so in a way that proved beyond doubt that he did not steal from ups. let us know how it turns out at the hearing. One question tie. is possession of stolen goods a charge that would have lp call the police and have an employee arrested for? or is it something that would be handled differently? and why would a person savvy in theft of items with serial numbers, register a phone with his employer knowing that the phone would pop up later on as a stolen phone? i dont see criminals running out to the police and registering guns that they have stolen, just to make it look like they didnt do it. that is a pretty big stretch of the imagination. i would think the thief would not want that type of attention drawn to himself? best d ps, as far as the disappointment, sorry. that will be something you will have to deal with. charge him with possession, you and i would agree. charge him with felony theft, when you let the actual thieves quit? what is the guy supposed to do, live the rest of his life as a felon when he is in fact not? you want to be the one that signs off on him having a felony record when the actual felon you let walk? that is not the tie i know and respect. that is not the one that i have spoken with that has human compassion and a driving force for justice. i am the one that is disappointed [/QUOTE]
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