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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 784289" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>OK, then taking your point as true as regards to people and search of liberty or lack thereof, why then does the state need guns and force to impose that will in the first place? Would not the people be natural to voluntering and submitting to it's will without any resistance? Why does the state need to grow in furtherance of forcing it's will if people are so clamouring for it in the first place? Why then do people begin to rebel when new information begins to surface as to the length and breath of the State's reach? </p><p> </p><p>Here's a goal for you. Create a state that is moral to itself and it's citizens, is always transparent, willing to celebrate it's successes as openly as it is to admit it's failures and to analyze them in the public commons for all to see the flaws and errors, "no god-kings who rule without error" and then willing to correct those mistakes made with due haste. A state willing to also "make whole those harmed" when mistakes are made and not engage in intrigue and deceit in order to protect it's own culpability in a matter. Make a state that issues decrees and then when found inconvenient and hard, still follows the word of original intent and doesn't twist them to conform to new conditions that would benefit those in gov't to maintain power. Do those thing bssam and for all purposes I got no wind in my sails.</p><p> </p><p>Also be careful in confusing people's natural social nature to one another and the natural way of self organizing among themselves for mutual benefit as some means to justify an organized central state that serves to benefit the needs of a few at the top. Even Marx himself ultimately idolized a stateless society although his methods to get there were flawed but he even understood man at the end of the day seeked his own freedom outside the influence and self-determination of others and yet wanted a mutual, cooperative existence with others with whom he lived around. Communiterianism can be voluntary and yet promote the highest individualist ideals when philosophic, moral principles are taught and understood. Although Marx's offense with so-called capitalism eg british mercantilism were spot on in relation to State privilege, a privilege American capitalists have yet to realize of themselves eg the state socialism they believe they toil against, Marx ideal of taking over state privilege for his own ends was still wrong at the end of the day and in actual practice at the state level, became just as privileged if not worse a system as the mercantists had that he opposed. </p><p> </p><p>As to philosophic, moral first principles, why are these principles so found lacking in the elementary and secondary school levels? That was a very rhetorical question BTW?</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/happy-very.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":happy-very:" title="Happy Very :happy-very:" data-shortname=":happy-very:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 784289, member: 2189"] OK, then taking your point as true as regards to people and search of liberty or lack thereof, why then does the state need guns and force to impose that will in the first place? Would not the people be natural to voluntering and submitting to it's will without any resistance? Why does the state need to grow in furtherance of forcing it's will if people are so clamouring for it in the first place? Why then do people begin to rebel when new information begins to surface as to the length and breath of the State's reach? Here's a goal for you. Create a state that is moral to itself and it's citizens, is always transparent, willing to celebrate it's successes as openly as it is to admit it's failures and to analyze them in the public commons for all to see the flaws and errors, "no god-kings who rule without error" and then willing to correct those mistakes made with due haste. A state willing to also "make whole those harmed" when mistakes are made and not engage in intrigue and deceit in order to protect it's own culpability in a matter. Make a state that issues decrees and then when found inconvenient and hard, still follows the word of original intent and doesn't twist them to conform to new conditions that would benefit those in gov't to maintain power. Do those thing bssam and for all purposes I got no wind in my sails. Also be careful in confusing people's natural social nature to one another and the natural way of self organizing among themselves for mutual benefit as some means to justify an organized central state that serves to benefit the needs of a few at the top. Even Marx himself ultimately idolized a stateless society although his methods to get there were flawed but he even understood man at the end of the day seeked his own freedom outside the influence and self-determination of others and yet wanted a mutual, cooperative existence with others with whom he lived around. Communiterianism can be voluntary and yet promote the highest individualist ideals when philosophic, moral principles are taught and understood. Although Marx's offense with so-called capitalism eg british mercantilism were spot on in relation to State privilege, a privilege American capitalists have yet to realize of themselves eg the state socialism they believe they toil against, Marx ideal of taking over state privilege for his own ends was still wrong at the end of the day and in actual practice at the state level, became just as privileged if not worse a system as the mercantists had that he opposed. As to philosophic, moral first principles, why are these principles so found lacking in the elementary and secondary school levels? That was a very rhetorical question BTW? :happy-very: [/QUOTE]
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