When Did the Decline Start?

[Seymour Packages]

Question for the old timers. When did you notice the company culture start to shift to the mess it is now? One of the 30 year drivers on the route next to mine says it all started to go downhill once the company went public in '99. Another driver says he noticed a change once the holiday turkeys stopped. One guy says that once "computers" were introduced, it was all over. I am a 3rd generation UPSer, and my grandfather always used to say that back in the day, drivers were honored for safe driving. Leather jackets? Watches?? Hard to believe that was once a thing. Now it's a quick mention at the PCM and a patch. No one seems to care anymore. It used to be a pride thing. Uniform standards are only suggestions now. Some guys leave the building looking like TRASH. All the while upper management sings kumbaya and acts like widespread apathy toward the job, piss poor customer service, and crapping on the most vital people in their organization will be beneficial in the long run.

 

[MyTripisCut]

Question for the old timers. When did you notice the company culture start to shift to the mess it is now? One of the 30 year drivers on the route next to mine says it all started to go downhill once the company went public in '99. Another driver says he noticed a change once the holiday turkeys stopped. One guy says that once "computers" were introduced, it was all over. I am a 3rd generation UPSer, and my grandfather always used to say that back in the day, drivers were honored for safe driving. Leather jackets? Watches?? Hard to believe that was once a thing. Now it's a quick mention at the PCM and a patch. No one seems to care anymore. It used to be a pride thing. Uniform standards are only suggestions now. Some guys leave the building looking like TRASH. All the while upper management sings kumbaya and acts like widespread apathy toward the job, piss poor customer service, and crapping on the most vital people in their organization will be beneficial in the long run.

It probably started going to crap when people with less than a year of seniority started whining and crying about all the things a 20 year vet had that they didn’t. Along with the changes in management compensation, at least ORS and center manager used to have done the job for a decade, now you get some 30 year old punk who hasn’t delivered or loaded for more than a month that doesn’t understand that you’re in it for the long haul not just yesterday’s numbers. Also when I started, the center manager and ORS’s could actually make decisions that would make a day go smoother, now they are puppets for the stock holders and pretty much can’t even tie their own shoes.

 

[NAHimGOOD]

. Also when I started, the center manager and ORS’s could actually make decisions that would make a day go smoother, now they are puppets for the stock holders and pretty much can’t even tie their own shoes.

Pretty much

 

[badpal]

From someone who has been here 40 plus years, i say it's pretty much the same basically. But with all the new technology the job has been dumbed down and sped up at the same time.

 

[Wally]

Question for the old timers. When did you notice the company culture start to shift to the mess it is now? One of the 30 year drivers on the route next to mine says it all started to go downhill once the company went public in '99. Another driver says he noticed a change once the holiday turkeys stopped. One guy says that once "computers" were introduced, it was all over. I am a 3rd generation UPSer, and my grandfather always used to say that back in the day, drivers were honored for safe driving. Leather jackets? Watches?? Hard to believe that was once a thing. Now it's a quick mention at the PCM and a patch. No one seems to care anymore. It used to be a pride thing. Uniform standards are only suggestions now. Some guys leave the building looking like TRASH. All the while upper management sings kumbaya and acts like widespread apathy toward the job, piss poor customer service, and crapping on the most vital people in their organization will be beneficial in the long run.

Once we went public. That and the current business model of management by reports.

Telematics tell a story but not the whole story. Management only reads half the book.

 

[oldngray]

Once we went public.

It probably started just before it went public but for sure the rapid decline began when management had to start answering to shareholders that didn't work for the company.

 

[quad decade guy]

No one has mentioned the strike. The company has never been the same. Going public finished it off.

My reference starts from 40 years ago. Let's review/explore.....

When I started until really a few years ago, it was more like being in the military. Uniforms, appearance standards and mental and yes physical abuse. It was a one-way street. Very rigid. And it worked. Steady work and good benefits and always great pay...for everyone. If you could put up with all that, didn't mind hard work, you could have a career with just a high school diploma or such.

The strike crippled/shook this company to it's core. It also allowed FED-EX to become a powerful competitor. I truly think this is not debatable. UPS's sense of pride and singular purpose was challenged and broken those two weeks. They are still angry to this day. Are we still in business? Still here and all that? Yes we are but not like it used to be. UPS did things their own way.....they didn't care or have to listen to anyone...They were a monolith. Very Postal Service like.

But....is this a good or bad thing?

This subject is way too nebulous for here. Personally if giving up trinkets for milestones, not say shaving ever again or the equipment I have access to now or the pay I receive.....I'll take it. Compared to the way it used to be......decline is a good thing.

 

[oldngray]

No one has mentioned the strike. The company has never been the same. Going public finished it off.

My reference starts from 40 years ago. Let's review/explore.....

When I started until really a few years ago, it was more like being in the military. Uniforms, appearance standards and mental and yes physical abuse. It was a one-way street. Very rigid. And it worked. Steady work and good benefits and always great pay...for everyone. If you could put up with all that, didn't mind hard work, you could have a career with just a high school diploma or such.

The strike crippled/shook this company to it's core. It also allowed FED-EX to become a powerful competitor. I truly think this is not debatable. UPS's sense of pride and singular purpose was challenged and broken those two weeks. They are still angry to this day. Are we still in business? Still here and all that? Yes we are but not like it used to be. UPS did things their own way.....they didn't care or have to listen to anyone...They were a monolith. Very Postal Service like.

But....is this a good or bad thing?

This subject is way too nebulous for here. Personally if giving up trinkets for milestones, not say shaving ever again or the equipment I have access to now or the pay I receive.....I'll take it. Compared to the way it used to be......decline is a good thing.

A big reason the strike happened was how UPS was treating employees. UPS may have used it as an excuse but they already had plans in place.

 

[Seymour Packages]

No one has mentioned the strike. The company has never been the same. Going public finished it off.

My reference starts from 40 years ago. Let's review/explore.....

When I started until really a few years ago, it was more like being in the military. Uniforms, appearance standards and mental and yes physical abuse. It was a one-way street. Very rigid. And it worked. Steady work and good benefits and always great pay...for everyone. If you could put up with all that, didn't mind hard work, you could have a career with just a high school diploma or such.

The strike crippled/shook this company to it's core. It also allowed FED-EX to become a powerful competitor. I truly think this is not debatable. UPS's sense of pride and singular purpose was challenged and broken those two weeks. They are still angry to this day. Are we still in business? Still here and all that? Yes we are but not like it used to be. UPS did things their own way.....they didn't care or have to listen to anyone...They were a monolith. Very Postal Service like.

But....is this a good or bad thing?

This subject is way too nebulous for here. Personally if giving up trinkets for milestones, not say shaving ever again or the equipment I have access to now or the pay I receive.....I'll take it. Compared to the way it used to be......decline is a good thing.

The sad thing is, most guys with under 5 years in the company aren't even informed of the benefits that the union has negotiated for them. I would give anything to have been under the leadership of Ron Carey way back when. A union that fought for it's members. I see rampant abuse by ORS and other management simply because so many new employees don't know any better. The union meetings are mostly attended by those with time in the company. There is a reason a UPS driver is a respected career. It is not a secret how much we make or how solid our benefits/pensions are. What's sad to see is how this career is slowly becoming a cheap, revolving door. Customer service, professional appearance, and being the BEST in logistics is a pride thing. So many of the newer generation don't know or don't care.

 

[MrBates]

Question for the old timers. When did you notice the company culture start to shift to the mess it is now? One of the 30 year drivers on the route next to mine says it all started to go downhill once the company went public in '99. Another driver says he noticed a change once the holiday turkeys stopped. One guy says that once "computers" were introduced, it was all over. I am a 3rd generation UPSer, and my grandfather always used to say that back in the day, drivers were honored for safe driving. Leather jackets? Watches?? Hard to believe that was once a thing. Now it's a quick mention at the PCM and a patch. No one seems to care anymore. It used to be a pride thing. Uniform standards are only suggestions now. Some guys leave the building looking like TRASH. All the while upper management sings kumbaya and acts like widespread apathy toward the job, piss poor customer service, and crapping on the most vital people in their organization will be beneficial in the long run.

Only 6 years in so not an old timer, but every old timer I've talked to agrees that things changed once the company went public. Now it's all about playing with the numbers so it's presentable to the stockholders. I laugh at the brand new guys that are so eager to please their supes thinking if they run and make the numbers they can bargain for favors down the road. Young fools. Soon enough they will realize that they are just like everyone else...just a number...and then they start working "safer", taking their actual breaks, and then the games begin. I stopped chasing their imaginary numbers a long time ago. Work safe, work efficient, and make it to the most important stop of the day....home. I've NEVER seen ANYONE get fired for production.

 

[Seymour Packages]

Only 6 years in so not an old timer, but every old timer I've talked to agrees that things changed once the company went public. Now it's all about playing with the numbers so it's presentable to the stockholders. I laugh at the brand new guys that are so eager to please their supes thinking if they run and make the numbers they can bargain for favors down the road. Young fools. Soon enough they will realize that they are just like everyone else...just a number...and then they start working "safer", taking their actual breaks, and then the games begin. I stopped chasing their imaginary numbers a long time ago. Work safe, work efficient, and make it to the most important stop of the day....home. I've NEVER seen ANYONE get fired for production.

PREACH! Let them come watch, ride along, make passive aggressive comments, etc. Document everything. File, file, file! Work the same way every day, follow the methods. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

 

[ouanling]

The sad thing is, most guys with under 5 years in the company aren't even informed of the benefits that the union has negotiated for them. I would give anything to have been under the leadership of Ron Carey way back when. A union that fought for it's members. I see rampant abuse by ORS and other management simply because so many new employees don't know any better. The union meetings are mostly attended by those with time in the company. There is a reason a UPS driver is a respected career. It is not a secret how much we make or how solid our benefits/pensions are. What's sad to see is how this career is slowly becoming a cheap, revolving door. Customer service, professional appearance, and being the BEST in logistics is a pride thing. So many of the newer generation don't know or don't care.

Driving almost a year now

Still have not received my union booklets

New contract 3 months ago

still not received

Contacted teamsters: "SOME DAY"

but teamsters is very active when they need you to vote for new teamster leadership or when they want us to get vaccine before old vulnerable people(teamster canada trying to push vaccine on ups drivers and truck drivers before the old)

it's nonsense.

 

[ouanling]

Only 6 years in so not an old timer, but every old timer I've talked to agrees that things changed once the company went public. Now it's all about playing with the numbers so it's presentable to the stockholders. I laugh at the brand new guys that are so eager to please their supes thinking if they run and make the numbers they can bargain for favors down the road. Young fools. Soon enough they will realize that they are just like everyone else...just a number...and then they start working "safer", taking their actual breaks, and then the games begin. I stopped chasing their imaginary numbers a long time ago. Work safe, work efficient, and make it to the most important stop of the day....home. I've NEVER seen ANYONE get fired for production.

My friend started recently and he is not taking his breaks most of the time and he runs. He still hasnt hit 3 month senority. It works though, all the other new guys that have more days than him are not being called in right now and he's always in.

The day he gets his call to "officially join" he will close his mirrors and look both ways before taking each step to a house.

Same for me, i started in covid peak and i did more than all the new guys. Most of them are stuck on rentals in non-official runs or are gone. Now i work like a guy that has 30 years while still not being an ass when im asked to do something.


i think it's important to perform before you officially get in. Not even a year in and i basically switch between the best 2 splits of my city(better than any of the bid routes, one of them is 95% resi and 350k$+ houses) and i cover people in my city. Only 1 run sucks badly and the guy is always there. The others are not great but once you know them they arent terrible days either.

 

[MyTripisCut]

Driving almost a year now

Still have not received my union booklets

New contract 3 months ago

still not received

Contacted teamsters: "SOME DAY"

but teamsters is very active when they need you to vote for new teamster leadership or when they want us to get vaccine before old vulnerable people(teamster canada trying to push vaccine on ups drivers and truck drivers before the old)

it's nonsense.

You’re from Canada so we don’t care.

 

[MECH-lift]

Hey , we have GPS and beards now...

 

[quad decade guy]

The sad thing is, most guys with under 5 years in the company aren't even informed of the benefits that the union has negotiated for them. I would give anything to have been under the leadership of Ron Carey way back when. A union that fought for it's members. I see rampant abuse by ORS and other management simply because so many new employees don't know any better. The union meetings are mostly attended by those with time in the company. There is a reason a UPS driver is a respected career. It is not a secret how much we make or how solid our benefits/pensions are. What's sad to see is how this career is slowly becoming a cheap, revolving door. Customer service, professional appearance, and being the BEST in logistics is a pride thing. So many of the newer generation don't know or don't care.

Ok. I was. I personally believe he was responsible for UPS's decline. You'll never get a straight answer as to exactly why we struck. You will hear about the pension. That came to pass anyway. You can debate this any way you like. Hell, Ron Carey isn't even alive. Look at the lasting impact the strike has today.

 

[MECH-lift]

My friend started recently and he is not taking his breaks most of the time and he runs. He still hasnt hit 3 month senority. It works though, all the other new guys that have more days than him are not being called in right now and he's always in.

The day he gets his call to "officially join" he will close his mirrors and look both ways before taking each step to a house.

Same for me, i started in covid peak and i did more than all the new guys. Most of them are stuck on rentals in non-official runs or are gone. Now i work like a guy that has 30 years while still not being an ass when im asked to do something.


i think it's important to perform before you officially get in. Not even a year in and i basically switch between the best 2 splits of my city(better than any of the bid routes, one of them is 95% resi and 350k$+ houses) and i cover people in my city. Only 1 run sucks badly and the guy is always there. The others are not great but once you know them they arent terrible days either.

Davette , You’ve worked at UPS for one year , and from Canada

 

[oldngray]

Ok. I was. I personally believe he was responsible for UPS's decline. You'll never get a straight answer as to exactly why we struck. You will hear about the pension. That came to pass anyway. You can debate this any way you like. Hell, Ron Carey isn't even alive. Look at the lasting impact the strike has today.

UPS offered to take over the pension then. In hindsight it would have been a good thing. But people trusted the company even less than the union which demonstrates the work environment at the time.

 

[MECH-lift]

Same for me, i started in covid peak and i did more than all the new guys

YOU’RE THE BEST , GO GET EM CHAMP! you earned your gold star..

 

[retired2000]

started when the company went public. Like someone said use to be military like with appearance standards look at the drivers now it is terrible the way some of them look.