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Who is preventing new refineries??
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<blockquote data-quote="BrownShark" data-source="post: 334087" data-attributes="member: 12148"><p>BRETT,</p><p> </p><p>I can respect a well formatted response with an opinion that you can believe in. No insults from me on this one.</p><p> </p><p>I will however, debate "some" of your positions as I believe they are incorrect or slightly off the mark. </p><p> </p><p>Lets begin with this:</p><p></p><p> </p><p>Indeed, we have a "free market" economy, but what makes it work has many varibles. Sometimes, regulation has to be in place to keep things from reaching a gouging point. In some cases in America, once de-regulation occurs, prices become out of control. Oil may be facing regulation in the upcoming years and only time will tell.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>No argument here. The oil companies have turned a profit under this president unlike any other president in history. In fact, the rate of profit in 8 years is larger than the combined profit of all the oil companies in all the years before Bush took office.</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>This one i am not sure you really want to apply to the oil companies. "Razor thin profits"? This hasnt been the case for oil in 8 years. Record profits quarter after quarter, new ALL TIME profits for larger oil companies and CEO's making over 300 million in bonus and salaries.</p><p> </p><p>Indeed, cutting capacity is occuring. In the first quarter of this year, consumer use of gasoline dropped almost 5 % following a trend of decline from the last quarter of 2007 of 5%, and these "capitalist" decided to DECREASE gasoline refining capacity from 98% output to 84% output.</p><p> </p><p>What does this do? Its simple. By reducing refining output, it falsely manufactures a shortfall of expected delivery of gasoline in the coming months, then the oil speculators discuss this with the oil companies and then falsely raise the price of a barrel of oil for the next month because of expected delivery shortfalls.</p><p> </p><p>This is the problem. This started with Bush 1 and the oil companies. When Bush 1 decided to ALLOW the oil companies to begin a systematic shutdown of 27 refineries in the USA, they knew the price of oil would be manipulated.</p><p> </p><p>They figured out that if they can encourage consumption and decrease production, the price of a barrel of oil would reach new "margins" (profits).</p><p> </p><p>Under Clinton, he used a threat of flooding the market with oil out of the strategic reserves to keep the price of oil down.</p><p> </p><p>With this threat, the price of oil remained stable in the US for 8 years.</p><p> </p><p>Under Bush 2, if you look at the chart, almost immediately, the price of oil went up and the price of gasoline shot up to $2 bucks a gallon for no reason at all.</p><p> </p><p>China and India are using more oil, yes, but that has nothing to do with "our" levels of fuel in this country.</p><p> </p><p>In China, the goverment subsidizes the price of gas to their citizens by almost $1.50 a gallon. This is why they pay less than we do.</p><p> </p><p>Under Bush 2, he has taken no action to curb prices to the american public. He has not encouraged anyone to conserve fuel usage. He has not put into action, any car pool incentives as Clinton did for 8 years. </p><p> </p><p>If Bush 2 wanted to get the price of oil down, why didnt he ask the republican congress and senate to pass his energy bill that allows drilling in Anwar during the 6 years they controlled congress and the white house??</p><p> </p><p>Why wait until the democrats control congress to try and pass an energy bill? </p><p> </p><p>Well, this is a simple one to answer.</p><p> </p><p>There is no incentive for oil companies to increase production. </p><p> </p><p>They are making outrageous profits right now and no one is stopping them, so to invest in any projects that increase production and "LOWER" the price of oil is simply rediculous.</p><p> </p><p>Why would they go from $125 a barrel to $50 a barrel?</p><p> </p><p></p><p> </p><p>This one just isnt true at all. In 2005, a bill was passed to ease restrictions on oil refineries and goverment land was available for construction of such projects. Again, the oil companies are not interested. Its counterproductive to profits.</p><p> </p><p>I will ask you to consider these scenarios:</p><p> </p><p>In a free market economy, what if all the dairy farmers get together and decide to milk fewer cows per day and reduce the output of milk and raising the price of milk to $10 a gallon?</p><p> </p><p>Would you be cool with this?</p><p> </p><p>What if chicken ranchers raised less chickens and harvested less eggs and decreased production and raise the price of a dozen eggs to $10 a carton?</p><p> </p><p>Would you be cool with this?</p><p> </p><p>What if wheat farmers cut their fields in HALF and provided 50% less wheat and then raised the price of a loaf of bread to $7?</p><p> </p><p>Would you be cool with this?</p><p> </p><p>What if beef farmers got together and decided to raise less cows and cut beef production by 50% and provided less product to markets and restaurants causing a steak to cost over $30.</p><p> </p><p>Would you be cool with this?</p><p> </p><p>If you believe that we are in a free market economy, and a company has a right to churn a profit, and that company has the right to cut excess capacity, would you be comfortable paying $57 bucks for a Steak, Egg, Milk Bread breakfast after all these entities manipulated the market just for profit???</p><p> </p><p>How many americans could afford this??</p><p> </p><p>i am curious.</p><p> </p><p>Peace<img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BrownShark, post: 334087, member: 12148"] BRETT, I can respect a well formatted response with an opinion that you can believe in. No insults from me on this one. I will however, debate "some" of your positions as I believe they are incorrect or slightly off the mark. Lets begin with this: Indeed, we have a "free market" economy, but what makes it work has many varibles. Sometimes, regulation has to be in place to keep things from reaching a gouging point. In some cases in America, once de-regulation occurs, prices become out of control. Oil may be facing regulation in the upcoming years and only time will tell. No argument here. The oil companies have turned a profit under this president unlike any other president in history. In fact, the rate of profit in 8 years is larger than the combined profit of all the oil companies in all the years before Bush took office. This one i am not sure you really want to apply to the oil companies. "Razor thin profits"? This hasnt been the case for oil in 8 years. Record profits quarter after quarter, new ALL TIME profits for larger oil companies and CEO's making over 300 million in bonus and salaries. Indeed, cutting capacity is occuring. In the first quarter of this year, consumer use of gasoline dropped almost 5 % following a trend of decline from the last quarter of 2007 of 5%, and these "capitalist" decided to DECREASE gasoline refining capacity from 98% output to 84% output. What does this do? Its simple. By reducing refining output, it falsely manufactures a shortfall of expected delivery of gasoline in the coming months, then the oil speculators discuss this with the oil companies and then falsely raise the price of a barrel of oil for the next month because of expected delivery shortfalls. This is the problem. This started with Bush 1 and the oil companies. When Bush 1 decided to ALLOW the oil companies to begin a systematic shutdown of 27 refineries in the USA, they knew the price of oil would be manipulated. They figured out that if they can encourage consumption and decrease production, the price of a barrel of oil would reach new "margins" (profits). Under Clinton, he used a threat of flooding the market with oil out of the strategic reserves to keep the price of oil down. With this threat, the price of oil remained stable in the US for 8 years. Under Bush 2, if you look at the chart, almost immediately, the price of oil went up and the price of gasoline shot up to $2 bucks a gallon for no reason at all. China and India are using more oil, yes, but that has nothing to do with "our" levels of fuel in this country. In China, the goverment subsidizes the price of gas to their citizens by almost $1.50 a gallon. This is why they pay less than we do. Under Bush 2, he has taken no action to curb prices to the american public. He has not encouraged anyone to conserve fuel usage. He has not put into action, any car pool incentives as Clinton did for 8 years. If Bush 2 wanted to get the price of oil down, why didnt he ask the republican congress and senate to pass his energy bill that allows drilling in Anwar during the 6 years they controlled congress and the white house?? Why wait until the democrats control congress to try and pass an energy bill? Well, this is a simple one to answer. There is no incentive for oil companies to increase production. They are making outrageous profits right now and no one is stopping them, so to invest in any projects that increase production and "LOWER" the price of oil is simply rediculous. Why would they go from $125 a barrel to $50 a barrel? This one just isnt true at all. In 2005, a bill was passed to ease restrictions on oil refineries and goverment land was available for construction of such projects. Again, the oil companies are not interested. Its counterproductive to profits. I will ask you to consider these scenarios: In a free market economy, what if all the dairy farmers get together and decide to milk fewer cows per day and reduce the output of milk and raising the price of milk to $10 a gallon? Would you be cool with this? What if chicken ranchers raised less chickens and harvested less eggs and decreased production and raise the price of a dozen eggs to $10 a carton? Would you be cool with this? What if wheat farmers cut their fields in HALF and provided 50% less wheat and then raised the price of a loaf of bread to $7? Would you be cool with this? What if beef farmers got together and decided to raise less cows and cut beef production by 50% and provided less product to markets and restaurants causing a steak to cost over $30. Would you be cool with this? If you believe that we are in a free market economy, and a company has a right to churn a profit, and that company has the right to cut excess capacity, would you be comfortable paying $57 bucks for a Steak, Egg, Milk Bread breakfast after all these entities manipulated the market just for profit??? How many americans could afford this?? i am curious. Peace:peaceful: [/QUOTE]
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