Why did Hoffa/hall sell us out

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by enzo, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. enzo

    enzo Member

    Serious question, can anyone tell me why Hoffa sold us out????
  2. anonymous6

    anonymous6 Guest

    that's a question I ask everyday. even if hall did not intentionally sell us out, it shows that he is very out-of touch and needs to be gone.
    just remember this at the next election.
  3. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    An even more serious question, can anyone tell how Hoffa sold you out?

    ​The beloved Teamsters will be taking care of your healthcare needs and UPS Teamster employees got increases in wages when no one else in America is getting raises and usually pay cuts.
  4. Gumby

    Gumby *

    they wont listen to the membership! HOFFA and hall tried to cram this contract down our throats! Besides the healthcare (which I understand needs to be addressed) The real issues of harassment and excessive overtime, more jobs have not been really addressed! WE Work for UPS , NOT THE Teamsters! They need to listen to the membership!,,
  5. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    I voted against the NMA and my supplement and still don't feel "sold out." UPS will be spending more on health care via contributions by 2018 than they are now. Originally, I gave our contract a C- but with the TeamCare improvements, I bump it up to a C+.
  6. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    The new 9.5 language that requires arbitration when the driver's planned day does not get adjusted and gets our foot in the door as far as requiring the company to put more FT drivers on the road. It's not perfect, but it can be built upon. We will never see "solid" harassment language that has real teeth, such as requiring a supervisor or manager be moved or terminated; when I help union members file Art. 37, Sec. 1 grievances I always have them add "for [supervisor] to be reprimanded and for grievant to be made whole in every way." When supervisors (at least in the hub) start get jammed up with multiple harassment grievances (from multiple employees) and get the hotline called on them, the labor manager will typically shuffle them around the operation to prevent the possibility of litigation.

    As far as more 22.3 jobs, I wanted new language in the contract protecting the jobs from being moved away to other locals. But other than an increase each contract, I don't see IBT pushing for those since so many 22.3 combo workers don't even work their second shift. Why push for a FT job with a FT pension and pay when they become a de facto 20-hour a week gig (at $26/hr) because the hub hourlies don't want to work? It might be a good idea to push for new language in the supplements allowing 22.3's to opt-out of their FT assignments and go back to being PT or require a FT combo's job going back up for bid if they don't work their second shift 50% of the time or more (unless they are laid off or have a valid medical reason.)
  7. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    I think most other wage earners in America would grade it a bit higher.

    ​Perspective is a good thing - in photography and life.
  8. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    Absolutely. I know quite a few active/retired American Postal Workers Union (APWU) and National Association of Letter Carriers (NALC) employees and our health insurance absolutely blows theirs' out of the water as far as benefits and premiums. And there's no contest between the FedEx Ground (or even the Express Courier's) driver's base rate of pay and benefit package and the UPS driver's.

    But not getting starting pay for new hires up to at least $12/hr (I personally think all PT'ers should be on a 3 or 4 year pay progression wherein they top out at ~$18-$20/hr, with contractual raises thereafter with current PT'ers being red-circled) and the new four year FT progression were still disappointing.
  9. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Dark Prince of Double Standards Staff Member

    I understand.
    I have long been a proponent of the Teamsters sticking up for Part-timers and getting better wages.
    ​I feel like every post I make should end with a qualifier"except for part-timers".
  10. PT Stewie

    PT Stewie "Big Fella"

    I drank the IBT cool aide and supported the passing of the master agreement.What I did not like was when things got rough with the suppliments the leadership adopted a bunker mentality and did not communicate what so ever. They let the TDU fire away with volley after volley of statements ,flyers etc to further divide the rank and file.They (our leadership) hung the local officers,ba's,and stewards out to dry.Like it or not the vote no movement got the leadership to enhance or better our health care package.These enhancements came from the fund not from UPS . Now in my humble opinion it is time to vote yes and move on for the next five years. If you have reservations about our leadership say it with your vote in the next election and not the pathetic 20% turnout we had on the contract vote !
  11. PiedmontSteward

    PiedmontSteward RTW-4-Less

    TDU does deserve some measure of credit in the "Vote NO" movement enhancing TeamCare benefits. The unprecedented rejection of 17 supplements got the IBT leadership's attention and got them moving to convince the trustees to improve our health insurance. However, TDU's motives are always in question and they're obviously looking ahead to propping someone up to run against hall in 2016.
  12. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    It amazes me how stupid people are to not be able to recognize this. Stupid is as stupid does.
  13. dragracer66

    dragracer66 Active Member

    Everybody keeps thinking that health care for current employees is just one problem. How about the guys who are retired now or will be retiring during this contract they are getting screwed if they are not 65 yet. I'm not a teamster I'm a machinist but you guys need to get that straightened out also because what you get will follow suit for us! Some of you may not care about retirees now because you only have 5-10 years in but your going to go some time don't you wanna be taken care of until your 65? This is back breaking ball busting work (drivers and mechanics) shouldn't we be taken care of after retirement? HELL YES WE SHOULD!!!!!
  14. ezmoney5150

    ezmoney5150 Active Member

    I would like to know how you feel you were soldout. This is called negotiations. You don't get everything you want in a negotiation. I made a proposal for air bag suspension and high back seats in all new tractors. I got the seats but no bags.I'm not crying about being "sold out". As far as harassment is concerned article 37 covers that. The only people that are harassed are the ones that won't file a grievance or someone who has skeletons in their closet.
  15. dragracer66

    dragracer66 Active Member

    All of our new Macks and Kenworths have the air bags.
  16. Anonymous 10

    Anonymous 10 Guest

    How are they getting screwed?? The cost stays the same. They have more coverage that renews every year instead of a cap in the ups plan. Now they get dental and vision.
  17. ezmoney5150

    ezmoney5150 Active Member

    That's because they won't spec the tractors anymore. But junk internationals will come with springs unless its in the contract.
  18. InsideUPS

    InsideUPS Active Member

    Enzo, serious answer:

    The complexities of a Union such as the IBT involve much more than just UPS. Some people will always view "compromise" as a "sell out" however to learn what truly goes on with Union negotiations, I believe you should become more active in your Local. Your indication that one man controls our destiny tells me that you would benefit by learning more about the Union which you "appear" to be a part of.

  19. 104Feeder

    104Feeder Phoenix Feeder

    Let me translate some of the rhetoric:

    "Sold us out": hall explains hard truths & realities to the membership, but they don't go over well.

    "listen to the Membership": the usualy blustering from that perennnial element that wants to strike no matter what.

    "Out of touch": means we're unhappy that reality met some of our Contract proposals and it wasn't pretty.

    "Needs to be gone": Because some live in that fantasy land where removing their current E-board will somehow garner them more power at the National when the exact opposite is usually true.

    "Cram it down our throats": The more straight talk from hall & Co the more likely this is to be pulled out. That and it's usually used to negate a vote tally.

    "(insert issue) wasn't addressed!" Almost always the opposite is true, however the utterer feels the changes won't make a difference and isn't willing to give them a chance.

    "Re-negotiate the Master!" Ignores realities of contract negotiation & ignorance of the process.

    "Strike!" Throwaway phrase that shows the poster has no idea how far we are from even discussing such a prospect.
  20. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    20% turnout makes every vote count a little more, if anything. 80% turnout and then no one's vote means s***. The herd coming out to vote is great for people such as Hoffa, who win off of name. The Teamsters are somewhat democratic compared to other unions (AWPA for ex: ) but on a national scale, it's still the same crooked politicians making the same promises they can't keep year after year, fattening their own wallets with ridiculous raises all the while pension funds continue to struggle.