Wind Power Innovations

[wkmac]

Radical architect Mike Reynolds of Taos New Mexico made famous by his Earthship home design (see documentary "Garbage Warrior") has taken on a radical approach to wind power design. Wind Power IMO is not a solution for power on a grid size scale put is a great solution on the micro generation scale.

 

[bbsam]

How about this? A buddy and I toy with the idea of small "wings" attached to wheeled vehicles to provide a degree of lift to reduce weight and rolling resistance. The vehicle could be made highly aerodynamic and as the vehicle slows, lift declines to provide sprung weight for turning. It's effectively the opposite of a rear spoiler.

 

[sailfish]

It's actually a good-looking structure. If that were able to run a house on it's own I'd easily drop 8k for one.

 

[wkmac]

How about this? A buddy and I toy with the idea of small "wings" attached to wheeled vehicles to provide a degree of lift to reduce weight and rolling resistance. The vehicle could be made highly aerodynamic and as the vehicle slows, lift declines to provide sprung weight for turning. It's effectively the opposite of a rear spoiler.

As lift occurs, the load on power is reduced and those energy saving realized. Can the lift be maintained during reduced power is now the key to going forward I would think.

BTW: Great out of the box thinking!

 

[bbsam]

As lift occurs, the load on power is reduced and those energy saving realized. Can the lift be maintained during reduced power is now the key to going forward I would think.

BTW: Great out of the box thinking!

I think that's where the aerodynamics comes in. I recall from early motorecycle racing, small 50hp engines could propel a motorcycle at well over 100 mph due to the bubble shaped front. In fact, the shape of a raindrop proves one of the most efficient designs. So as the lift occurs, the vehicle should be left with the relatively light weight of the axles and suspension to be propelled by engine and transmission. The body housing engine and transmission effectively becomes unsprung weight being propelled on air. I'm no engineer (obviously) but it's fun to think about possibilities no matter how crazy or currently impractical.

 

[oldngray]

I think that's where the aerodynamics comes in. I recall from early motorecycle racing, small 50hp engines could propel a motorcycle at well over 100 mph due to the bubble shaped front. In fact, the shape of a raindrop proves one of the most efficient designs. So as the lift occurs, the vehicle should be left with the relatively light weight of the axles and suspension to be propelled by engine and transmission. The body housing engine and transmission effectively becomes unsprung weight being propelled on air. I'm no engineer (obviously) but it's fun to think about possibilities no matter how crazy or currently impractical.

Are you talking about using ground effect? I don't know whether that would help fuel economy. If you are talking about using lift then you would also be increasing drag so whether it would make enough difference if any is a big question.

 

[wkmac]

Are you talking about using ground effect? I don't know whether that would help fuel economy. If you are talking about using lift then you would also be increasing drag so whether it would make enough difference if any is a big question.

As I understand ground effects, that sucks the vehicle down to the track which is the reverse of what bbsam is going. He's looking to almost launching flight without fully leaving the ground.

 

[wkmac]

I think that's where the aerodynamics comes in. I recall from early motorecycle racing, small 50hp engines could propel a motorcycle at well over 100 mph due to the bubble shaped front. In fact, the shape of a raindrop proves one of the most efficient designs. So as the lift occurs, the vehicle should be left with the relatively light weight of the axles and suspension to be propelled by engine and transmission. The body housing engine and transmission effectively becomes unsprung weight being propelled on air. I'm no engineer (obviously) but it's fun to think about possibilities no matter how crazy or currently impractical.

Some of mankind's greatest leaps have come from what might be called "shade tree engineers" as opposed to book taught engineers. Sometimes the book creates inside the box thinking whereas the answer going forward is outside the box.

Keep up thinking outside the box. Daring to ask "what if" is what has made the greatest history for mankind.

 

[bbsam]

Are you talking about using ground effect? I don't know whether that would help fuel economy. If you are talking about using lift then you would also be increasing drag so whether it would make enough difference if any is a big question.

I'm trying to have it both ways.

I think I'm talking a very small amount of lift with a relatively large reduction in "rolling weight". Like having the body of a vehicle behaving the way wheels hydroplane on water, the body of the vehicle would...well, aeroplane. The aerodynamics of the vehicle would be directing the flow as to reduce drag or as in hydroplane going reduce the contact patch between vehicle and air.

 

[oldngray]

I'm trying to have it both ways.

I think I'm talking a very small amount of lift with a relatively large reduction in "rolling weight". Like having the body of a vehicle behaving the way wheels hydroplane on water, the body of the vehicle would...well, aeroplane. The aerodynamics of the vehicle would be directing the flow as to reduce drag or as in hydroplane going reduce the contact patch between vehicle and air.

Loss of traction by doing that would decrease safety.

 

[bbsam]

Loss of traction by doing that would decrease safety.

The wheels never leave the ground and reduction in speed settles vehicle back to the normal driving characteristics. Who cracks the steering wheel 3 full turns at 70 mph?

 

[wkmac]

I've often wondered about using earth magnets as bearings to create a kind of maglev setup which reduces drag and can turn a windmill on almost no wind at all. Is it even possible to place the magnets at opposing angles to aid in rpm?

 

[oldngray]

The wheels never leave the ground and reduction in speed settles vehicle back to the normal driving characteristics. Who cracks the steering wheel 3 full turns at 70 mph?

Have you every hydroplaned at 70 mph?

 

[oldngray]

I've often wondered about using earth magnets as bearings to create a kind of maglev setup which reduces drag and can turn a windmill on almost no wind at all. Is it even possible to place the magnets at opposing angles to aid in rpm?

Magnets have been tried to generate thrust and some inventors promised almost perpetual motion machines with them but none of those ideas ever worked. Friction and increased weight defeated any potential advantages. Maglev is different and works but only under limited conditions.

 

[wkmac]

Loss of traction by doing that would decrease safety.

I think what bbsam is looking for is that sweet spot.

 

[bbsam]

Have you every hydroplaned at 70 mph?

No. In fact, I haven't hydroplaned in years. ABS, stability control, and tire technology have come a long way.

 

[wkmac]

Magnets have been tried to generate thrust and some inventors promised almost perpetual motion machines with them but none of those ideas ever worked. Friction and increased weight defeated any potential advantages. Maglev is different and works but only under limited conditions.

Not looking for perpetual motion. just to aid in drag reduction.

 

[oldngray]

Not looking for perpetual motion. just to aid in drag reduction.

I think the best application would be regenerative braking which does work but also adds weight.

 

[bbsam]

I think what bbsam is looking for is that sweet spot.

Yes. I have no idea if it exists. Might not today, but an idea shaped over a decade very well could stumble across such a sweet spot.

 

[wkmac]

I think the best application would be regenerative braking which does work but also adds weight.

Oh I'm talking about magnets as bearing in a vertical windmill application. Brakes on a windmill would defeat the purpose.

As to what bbsam is discussing, oh yeah, agree completely with you on that.

As to the weight issue, carbon fiber. Carbon Fiber brakes are stopping 300 plus mph fuel dragsters.