Would FDXG Driver unionization help ISP's

[Franklin Moore]

I am a semi-retired attorney whose nephew is an ISP. I also have a friend whose son is a driver. I am also watching the UPS situation re their impending (and its related issues) action re work hours and conditions.

My knowledge of FDX leads me to believe that the nature of contracts agreed to by the ISP's has led to similar, if not worse driver working conditions than those being confronted by the Teamsters.

Would it be reasonable to consider that an organizing effort by contractor drivers would assist contractors in elevating their income to a level that could lead to better recruitment/retention of their workforce?

 

[It will be fine]

I am a semi-retired attorney whose nephew is an ISP. I also have a friend whose son is a driver. I am also watching the UPS situation re their impending (and its related issues) action re work hours and conditions.

My knowledge of FDX leads me to believe that the nature of contracts agreed to by the ISP's has led to similar, if not worse driver working conditions than those being confronted by the Teamsters.

Would it be reasonable to consider that an organizing effort by contractor drivers would assist contractors in elevating their income to a level that could lead to better recruitment/retention of their workforce?

The entire contractor model is used to prevent organization by FedEx. Any ISP that has drivers represented by a union would have their contract terminated for “unrelated” issues no doubt. It would take a significant increase in compensation to ISPs to be able to afford union wages and benefits. There’s no way FedEx would let that happen.

 

[Franklin Moore]

Thank you for your input.

 

[bacha29]

I am a semi-retired attorney whose nephew is an ISP. I also have a friend whose son is a driver. I am also watching the UPS situation re their impending (and its related issues) action re work hours and conditions.

My knowledge of FDX leads me to believe that the nature of contracts agreed to by the ISP's has led to similar, if not worse driver working conditions than those being confronted by the Teamsters.

Would it be reasonable to consider that an organizing effort by contractor drivers would assist contractors in elevating their income to a level that could lead to better recruitment/retention of their workforce?

Employee drivers of ISP contractors are entitled to collective bargaining. However if the employees of an ISP were to vote to go union XG would almost immediately terminate the ISP's contract and reassign his or her routes to another contractor.In addition with Fedex Ground being the transportation industry's most profitable company with trucking as it's core with net operating margins more than double the industry average, XG's business model by design can quickly snuff out any efforts to organize and they most definitely will

With the UPS/IBT labor contract to expire July 31 it will be fun to watch the unfolding events over the next 2 months especially July. If there were to occur a nationwide volume shift to XG as some fear and combined with the usual busy July when school supplies start rolling in ISP could be under heavy pressure to acquire the additional assets at a time when the supply of cheap labor in some markets as well as the supply of rental trucks could be stretched to a breaking point.

So tell your nephew the time to get extra machines and manpower lined up is now. Overall contracting for XG is quickly becoming an impossible situation and if he's nearing the point of having had enough then remind him that his contract and routes will never be worth more than they are right now.

 

[Franklin Moore]

Thank you for your input. Thank goodness I advised a friend to not invest in this business.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Personally, I believe it would be the Contractors who would benefit most from unionizing.

FedEx can't replace you en masse, they would have to actually negotiate terms with you.

 

[dmac1]

I am a semi-retired attorney whose nephew is an ISP. I also have a friend whose son is a driver. I am also watching the UPS situation re their impending (and its related issues) action re work hours and conditions.

My knowledge of FDX leads me to believe that the nature of contracts agreed to by the ISP's has led to similar, if not worse driver working conditions than those being confronted by the Teamsters.

Would it be reasonable to consider that an organizing effort by contractor drivers would assist contractors in elevating their income to a level that could lead to better recruitment/retention of their workforce?

The teamsters have great conditions compared to ground drivers, and better than almost every ISP.

 

[dmac1]

Personally, I believe it would be the Contractors who would benefit most from unionizing.

FedEx can't replace you en masse, they would have to actually negotiate terms with you.

You would lose your contract immediately and fedex would temporarily hire all your drivers and pay them more than you do, and then sue you for the cost of servicing your route. And they would either win in court, or delay it so long that you would be living on the street if you counted on winning your strike.
You would never get at least half the contractors to go on strike in the first place. Too many are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to miss a payment on their 5 trucks. Then there are the contractors who really think they are independent, and don't believe in unions or hate them. Plus even more who may sympathize with unionizers, but are too afraid of losing.
A strike was more likely, and actually happened when almost all contractors were single route operators and drove their own routes. At least the NLRB semi-recognized them as employees.

 

[dmac1]

U

Employee drivers of ISP contractors are entitled to collective bargaining. However if the employees of an ISP were to vote to go union XG would almost immediately terminate the ISP's contract and reassign his or her routes to another contractor.In addition with Fedex Ground being the transportation industry's most profitable company with trucking as it's core with net operating margins more than double the industry average, XG's business model by design can quickly snuff out any efforts to organize and they most definitely will

With the UPS/IBT labor contract to expire July 31 it will be fun to watch the unfolding events over the next 2 months especially July. If there were to occur a nationwide volume shift to XG as some fear and combined with the usual busy July when school supplies start rolling in ISP could be under heavy pressure to acquire the additional assets at a time when the supply of cheap labor in some markets as well as the supply of rental trucks could be stretched to a breaking point.

So tell your nephew the time to get extra machines and manpower lined up is now. Overall contracting for XG is quickly becoming an impossible situation and if he's nearing the point of having had enough then remind him that his contract and routes will never be worth more than they are right now.

UPS doesn't have to worry much about a shortage of rental trucks, and if they pay scabs enough, it might be the ISP who has the problem. UPS knows already that there are thousands of fedex ground drivers who would jump to make a good impression at UPS. I would bet that they will start advertising directly to those drivers when the strike potential is at hand.

I have a vague memory of a UPS strike or threatened strike years ago that didn't hurt UPS. But today the ISP should be planning on replacing drivers who move to UPS during any strike instead of counting all the extra money they'll be making from extra deliveries. And they can't count on hiring striking UPS drivers, they'll all make more money collecting UI during a strike and wil look at it as a vacation.

 

[Fred's Myth]

You would lose your contract immediately and fedex would temporarily hire all your drivers and pay them more than you do, and then sue you for the cost of servicing your route. And they would either win in court, or delay it so long that you would be living on the street if you counted on winning your strike.
You would never get at least half the contractors to go on strike in the first place. Too many are living paycheck to paycheck and can't afford to miss a payment on their 5 trucks. Then there are the contractors who really think they are independent, and don't believe in unions or hate them. Plus even more who may sympathize with unionizers, but are too afraid of losing.
A strike was more likely, and actually happened when almost all contractors were single route operators and drove their own routes. At least the NLRB semi-recognized them as employees.

You have jumped to the false conclusion that all a union does is strike.
The purpose of a union is to represent its members, as a collective, to ensure a fair and equitable contract. There IS power in numbers. If all contractors were members, FedEx would be unable to fire any, or all, of them without the repercussions of having a complete disruption of its business.

 

[Oldfart]

Thank you for your input. Thank goodness I advised a friend to not invest in this business.

Taking advice from bacha is as useful as having Bernie Madoff be your stock broker.

 

[bbsam]

You have jumped to the false conclusion that all a union does is strike.
The purpose of a union is to represent its members, as a collective, to ensure a fair and equitable contract. There IS power in numbers. If all contractors were members, FedEx would be unable to fire any, or all, of them without the repercussions of having a complete disruption of its business.

I think it is illegal for contractors to unionize.

 

[bacha29]

You have jumped to the false conclusion that all a union does is strike.
The purpose of a union is to represent its members, as a collective, to ensure a fair and equitable contract. There IS power in numbers. If all contractors were members, FedEx would be unable to fire any, or all, of them without the repercussions of having a complete disruption of its business.

Here is what I can tell you and in fact this scenario was discussed in meetings with management.....If the employees of all contractors in a given terminal were to vote to go union both they and their contractor employer would be immediately terminated. The company would bring in lower tier managers and temp agency employees to take over the routes. If another terminal was nearby the could divert a certain number of zips to that terminal. And as dmac said they could try to sue the contractor but given that his employees were exercising their collective bargaining rights it might be harder for them to prevail in that situation.

 

[bacha29]

Here is what I can tell you and in fact this scenario was discussed in meetings with management.....If the employees of all contractors in a given terminal were to vote to go union both they and their contractor employer would be immediately terminated. The company would bring in lower tier managers and temp agency employees to take over the routes. If another terminal was nearby the could divert a certain number of zips to that terminal. And as dmac said they could try to sue the contractor but given that his employees were exercising their collective bargaining rights it might be harder for them to prevail in that situation.

BBSAM don't hold me to this but and it's now been more than a decade since this ruling but a federal court somewhere ruled that independent contractors can seek relief under collective bargaining. Let me go to work and see if I can find some information.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Here is what I can tell you and in fact this scenario was discussed in meetings with management.....If the employees of all contractors in a given terminal were to vote to go union both they and their contractor employer would be immediately terminated. The company would bring in lower tier managers and temp agency employees to take over the routes. If another terminal was nearby the could divert a certain number of zips to that terminal. And as dmac said they could try to sue the contractor but given that his employees were exercising their collective bargaining rights it might be harder for them to prevail in that situation.

You're thinking too small. One terminal holds no threat to the company. An entire state, or more, levels the playing field.

 

[oldrps]

The contractors/ISP's are incorporated entities, they can't join the union, but their drivers can. If the drivers of a contractor would strike against the contractor, then FedEx would terminate the contractor for not servicing their area. If the workers of a contractor demand more money and the contractor can't afford it, the contractor goes out of business. I don't see FedEx giving a contractor more money to pay for a unionized workforce. The union would have no bearing on FedEx, only the contractor, the driver's employer.

It is a no win for the workers of contractors to unionize, they would be unemployed in a short amount of time. I doubt FedEx would hire the contractor drivers either, when it was RPS, we were not to hire or contract with an individual who had worked in a union company.

I don't see the Teamsters trying to organize these contractors for these reasons, no long term benefit for them. Might be good PR to unionize a few locations, but it would not last.

 

[Fred's Myth]

The contractors/ISP's are incorporated entities, they can't join the union, but their drivers can.

I have been unable to corroborate your claim. Actually, my research indicates the exact opposite.
Such a union wouldn't have the same protections as an employee/employer group, but still would wield collective power.
Fight fire with fire, or get out of the kitchen.

 

[MAKAVELI]

I have been unable to corroborate your claim. Actually, my research indicates the exact opposite.
Such a union wouldn't have the same protections as an employee/employer group, but still would wield collective power.
Fight fire with fire, or get out of the kitchen.

I'm not sure FedEx would have to recognize an " independent contractor union". Besides FedEx would simply terminate any contractor who tried to organize others and set an example as to what would happen to them.

 

[oldrps]

I have been unable to corroborate your claim. Actually, my research indicates the exact opposite.
Such a union wouldn't have the same protections as an employee/employer group, but still would wield collective power.
Fight fire with fire, or get out of the kitchen.

I am talking about a traditional labor union that represents workers/employees. The ISP's could organize themselves as an association and try to negotiate with FedEx, but it is not a labor union. If any organization attempt was made by the ISP's, FedEx would fight it and not renew their contract with them. As the ISP's get bigger and more money tied into their business, I doubt many would take the risk.

There is an organization called Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association, but it is not a union, it is a trade assocation. It acts on behalf of Owner Operators in the government, like a PAC, to protect the Owner Operators.

 

[Fred's Myth]

The Right to Organize
As an independent contractor, the terms and conditions of the work you perform are set out in a contract between you and the employer. Even though you are not considered an “employee” under federal labor law, you may still join a union. However, you should keep in mind that a unit of independent contractors is not subject to the same privileges and protections as a regular union bargaining unit. For example, an employer is not under the same obligation to bargain with a union regarding contract terms for an independent contractor that it is to bargain over issues affecting its regular employees. Also, an independent contractor who went on strike would not be protected from employer reprisals under the National Labor Relations Act. www.cwa-union.org/

The main impediment would be possible anti-trust action being taken against any such union.
So continue to bend over and take it without Vaseline, if you insist.