yearly ride comittment letter

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by brownman170, Apr 14, 2009.

  1. brownman170

    brownman170 New Member

    Has anyone had any retaliation for not signing a commitment letter after the yearly 3 day ride along with the supervisor.
  2. MikeTbob

    MikeTbob New Member

    What is a commitment letter and why are you getting a 3 day ride along? Is this standard procedure in your area?
    BTW, I won't sign ANYTHING for UPS, well my paycheck! :greedy:
  3. brownman170

    brownman170 New Member

    they ride with you for 3 days here under the guise of safety but then ask you to sign a commitment that you'll perform to the SPORH that you do with the boss. I have never signed anything that they have ever given to me execpt for the DMV paperwork we have to provide re: driving infractions. I'm on direct deposit so I don't even sign that anymore...
  4. dirty moose

    dirty moose Member

    sign nothing but your pay check!!!

    better yet go direct deposit.
  5. DS

    DS Fenderbender

    If you have your ride along and get back earlier than you usually do and you sign that letter,you may be comitting employment suicide.
    There are way too many things that change day to day.
    On your ride along day,don't even LOOK in the car till start time.Do a complete pre-trip.Check your oil,wipers,horn,sign the DVIR and concentrate on your 10:30 commits.Do not deliver air with ground unless you usually do,and dont hold any deliveries for your pickup stops.
    Take your FULL breaks on area as well as your turn in procedure.
    Follow the methods as close as you can to the way you were trained.
    Have beans for dinner the night before:happy2:
  6. Big Babooba

    Big Babooba Well-Known Member

    And Broccoli:happy2:
  7. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    Preferably, some of Big's secret recipe beans.:happy2:
  8. Big Babooba

    Big Babooba Well-Known Member

    You might get a warning letter for melting the bulkhead door!
  9. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    I have never had a 3 day ride, ( I wish they would) and have never seen a commitment letter.
    I would sign it , if it was an accurate document.
    I would not sign it, if it was a promise to meet false numbers.
  10. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    It has been years since I have been ridden with for more than one day, and they know better than to waste time even asking me to sign anything.
  11. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Across this country, the 3 day ride is actually called a "3 day demonstrated standard ride". However, NO employee is required to sign any documents at any time. It does not matter what the intention.

    Article 6 of the National Master Agreement precludes the company from trying to enter into any AGREEMENTS that are outside of the negotiated contract language.

    Your signature to an agreement would be a violation of this article. Even if you did sign it, once you became aware of your rights, this document must be removed from your pitt and declared inoperable.

    The company cannot attempt to get any employee to sign and documents either individually or collectively that violate or create new language.

    So, they may ride with you, and your numbers may average out one way in three days, but that does not make it a STANDARD.

    Remember, the only document the company may present you that will rewuire your signature is the back of your paycheck.

  12. JonFrum

    JonFrum Member

    Unfortunately, the Contract also says this . . .

    Article 37 - Management-Employee Relations
    Section 1.
    (a) The parties agree that the principle of a fair day's work for a fair day's pay shall be observed at all times and employees shall perform their duties in a manner that best represents the Employer's interest.

    This could be seen as the Mother Of All Production Standards.:happy2:
  13. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    My safety rides are 2 or 3 hours long. Haven't had a supe on my area punch to punch in 16 years. Is this the new UPS or a case by case basis?
  14. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Excellent thing to bring up when they ask you to sign this!
  15. The Other Side

    The Other Side Well-Known Troll Troll

    Jon Frum,

    Your post is exactly why there are people like me who need to explain it to people like you.

    There is nothing contained, intended or implied in this sentence or article that relates to any standards. What you posted is clearly stating that its the EMPLOYEE who will act in the companys best interest.

    This places the onis onto the employee to make decisions and determine the course of business during on the clock hours. In no way does this allow the company to dictate to the employee how to work, what speed to work, what level of production to work or how many standards they must meet.

    Dont read anything into this article that doesnt exist. This section of article 37 was clearly written to PROTECT employees and NOT the company.

    37 is a clear EMPLOYEE protection article and not an agreement with the company to determine standards.

    I hope this helps you out with your understanding.

  16. well most of the management at my building interpret it to mean precisely that. They feel we dictate what is a fair days pay (having done the job for a few years before becoming a supe, I don't agree) via this article. For example if I have a loader with 1000 pieces I have to start him at 445, he would have to load at just under 270PPH to wrap in time for the drivers. I would like to see any one of my upper management team do this, labels facing, perfectly sequenced, no misloads. You know why? because they couldn't do it. I'm not speculating here, its a fact. Not too many people can load that fast, that accurate and with that quality and not make a mistake....sorry. I would like to see us be held to the same standard.

    My personal best was right around 300 pph but that was one of those everything came at the right time, and had just the right amount of space etc days (which come along once a blue moon...if ever). I busted my butt everyday but I know damn well I couldn't do THAT speed day in and day out. Not a chance. I could do 250+ easy enough but sometimes I'd get worn out a bit. Boy did I never hear the end of it on those loaded at 226 yesterday!!?! you're slacking! Pick it up! Besides all I ever got for it was a smaller paycheck or more work anyway.

    Bottom line, I don't consider 270pph a fair days work....considering our "target" PPH is in the 210 range. So he has 3.75 hrs (time he has to wrap before the drivers show up) with 4.76 hrs (calculated with our PPH goal) worth of work...there is nothing fair about that

    Some people 190pph is their best, some maybe its 203 some 275, everyone is different. However some people in this organization don't seem to understand that or agree with it.
    Lasted edited by : Apr 15, 2009
  17. ups_vette

    ups_vette New Member

    Thank you for your insight. You say UPS can not dictate what methods you should use, or what travel path to use to complete your area. I was under the impression that UPS instructed you on the methods they wanted you to use during your day. You're saying that you do not have to use the methods you are taught and you can develope whatever methods you feel are better for you. Now I understand why you feel you can not meet UPS's expectations, it's because you interpert the contract to mean you don't have to follow UPS's instructions, and can do as you like and UPS is powerless to prevent you from following their instructions.

    This helps me out with my understanding, thank you.
  18. pretzel_man

    pretzel_man Well-Known Member

    While I really have no agenda here, I think I would handle this differently if I were in the employee's shoes. Let me explain my position and why.

    First, I have a belief that a company has a right to observe an employee doing work, correct and document methods issues, and measure performance during those observations. I think most reasonable people agree with this.

    If performance when not observed is significantly and consistently different than when observed, this points to the employee as the issue. Again, I think most people would agree with this.

    With that being said, my position is that it doesn't really matter if you agree with my statement above or if you sign or don't sign the documentation of the observations.

    Those documents will still exist whether they are signed or not. They will be filed saying it was reviewed with the employee and the employee "refused to sign." If discipline continues based on the observations, the documents will eventually get in the hands of an arbitrator.

    So, here is what I think I would do if I were the employee. Rather than arguing that I don't agree with the validity of the ride, or saying that I refused to sign a document, I would make the document accurately reflect the situation.

    Again, I have no agenda or dog in this fight, but I think I would do the same thing I do when I see any document I don't like. I edit it.

    Why don't you edit the document to show how the conditions on the day of the ride are different than the norn. Write on the bottom that on the day of the ride, your load was perfect and you didn't have to sort it saving 30 minutes. Write that the door was closed and your AM time was reduced. Write that you had different splits than normal.

    To me, now the employee voice becomes part of the record. It seems that if I were the employee, I'd rather the arbitrator saw this as my voice instead of "refused to sign".

    I would appreciate constructive feedback as to why this is not a better approach.

  19. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Re: yearly ride commitment letter

    I have to side with The Other Side on this. If you sign one of these letters agreeing that you will do X amount of stops in X amount of time, you are entering into an extra-contractual agreement with the company.

    This is clearly a violation of the contract that UPS and the Union agreed to.
  20. Buffaloaf

    Buffaloaf New Member

    Well, 275 pieces an hour really isn't that much or unreasonable. I'm sure most management people that work in the operation could do that (probably not the ones that only work in admin/support roles). I've never loaded a package car, but I do feeders on a daily basis. If we actually get volume and there are call-ins, I have to work because our split requires chart knowledge...usually I'm going 350+ pph scanned along with my supervisor duties. Granted, I'm only 24, but I think if I'm able to do my job in addition to three loads, I think that an older / out of shape person could manage 275 PPH. If they can't, they should be sent to small sort or primary where their slowness can be hidden. People make Hub jobs sound harder than what they are. I don't know about the driver signatures on driving production, but I know that in the Hub you can not be fired for working slow, but you can be disqualified from a job if you do -- for example people have been DQed from a TWI/NIT combo job for not being able to keep up while loading. Which makes sense: why pay someone 24 dollars an hour to do a poor job. Another union employee takes the spot of the DQed employee, so it doesn't hurt them at all. Like I said, I'm not sure how it works with drivers, but it wouldn't suprise me if it were similar to this.