Your Pension Thoughts

[The Milkman]

Well with all the news about Pensions being in Trouble I think back to 81 when I started at UPS. Never making it out of High School I look back now and feel very fortunate that I retired with a decent Pension.

During contract years I heard over and over "I want it in my paycheck" Well I was always happy with my hourly wages compared to the rest of the workplaces. Making decent money in an unskilled job I felt I was doing ok. I was never a saver and I always said to myself and others that I would gladly take a dime or quarter per hour and sink the rest into the Pension Funds.

Well before you know it...almost 26 yrs flies by and I am retired.. Seeing all the funds that are in the red will hopefully open peoples eyes that maybe they might consider shoring up the plan now for their future pension benefits.

Look around and see all the unemployed and what some people made and what they are now working for..

Having a stable and secure pension is something everyone wants and if they last will enjoy down the road, but just as I knew I had job security when I was a driver having pension security should be first on your minds when thinking about up coming contracts because more in your pocket now may mean less in your pension and believe me when I say I feel blessed looking at others in financial stress all around me that wish they had a pension that in some cases have disolved and went poof.

Upsers make a decent wage and the pension benefit has to come from your donations into it for it to work.Pension Security...What's YOUR Thoughts?

 

[trouble maker]

Congratulations on your retirement, enjoy. I have 27 yrs in and my pension was 30 and out at any age at full pension. Things changed in our local and the members voted to give up our next 2yrs worth of raises to help the fund get healthy once again. Now you have to be 55 to retire. At 55 I will have 37yrs. Thankfully for every year you work over 30, the local contributes a little perk into your individual plan. People really bitched about the plan having to change. Some people don't look at what's going on around them. These same people complained when we had to start paying a $10.00 co-pay. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have what I have. There are a lot of people that have to get their heads out of their ass and get the " BIG PICTURE".

 

[Re-Raise]

Okay I 'll take the counter point.

I don't see how pouring more money into a pension fund that may or may not stay afloat long enough for me to collect from is better than having the money in my hand now to invest as I wish.

The pension plans are still claiming they are underfunded from the market downswing in 08-09. My investments have recovered everything I lost during the fall.

I have 25 years in and look at the pension sort of like social security. I don't trust there to really be any money left for me and I will control my finances so that I don't need it.

I have no debt and enough in the bank and markets for retirement with or without the pension. Give me the raise instead of raising the pension contribution. I trust myself more than I trust them.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Re-Raise, you are the exception, not the norm. How many of your co-workers are as prepared financially as you are and how many would invest those raises as diligently as you would?

 

[scratch]

I thought that I heard that most UPSers aren't invested in the IBT/UPS 401K Plan. There ain't way that I would count on any pension plan or Social Security to take care of me in a few years. Its sad that most people don't plan ahead.

 

[Fred777]

Okay I 'll take the counter point.

I don't see how pouring more money into a pension fund that may or may not stay afloat long enough for me to collect from is better than having the money in my hand now to invest as I wish.

The pension plans are still claiming they are underfunded from the market downswing in 08-09. My investments have recovered everything I lost during the fall.

I have 25 years in and look at the pension sort of like social security. I don't trust there to really be any money left for me and I will control my finances so that I don't need it.

I have no debt and enough in the bank and markets for retirement with or without the pension. Give me the raise instead of raising the pension contribution. I trust myself more than I trust them.

I agree with the above 100%. Give me my $$$$ now and I'll be responsible for my own retirement. Who's to say they will not wake up one day and just STOP the Pension Plan? They could just come out one day and say... From now on, no more payments to anyone.

 

[edd_tv]

im 30 with 3 years full time and a retirement age in our local of 58 and hope that a pension will be there by the time I retire. However, I do not plan on it being there. I started with the company at age 20 and contributed a modest amount(for a part timer) of my pay to the upsIBT 401k. I was fortunate in that i had a second job to supplement my income and had around 15% going to the plan. Since going full time and topping out I dropped my contribution rate to 10%, paid off all my student loans, and are debt free other than my mortgage. I have a sizable chunk in my 401k now and plan on upping my contribution rate back up. I learned from my old man to plan for yourself. He was in a United Steelworker pension fund that went belly up. He now receives 60% of what he would have through PBGC.

I am seriously considering moving it out of the IBT UPS plan and into something I have even more control over.

Nothing is certain anymore and I surely do not count on a pension being there by the time I retire. I hope and pray the UPS as a company is still around by the time I reach that age. If the pension is there, my wife and I will have even more to spend. If not we should still be fine.

 

[FracusBrown]

The unfortunate reality is that many pension plans mishandled pension funds, the government mishandled SS funds and if left on their own, most individuals mishanlde their own retirement savings/funds. I'd say anyone with a pension is very fortunate.

 

[Re-Raise]

Re-Raise, you are the exception, not the norm. How many of your co-workers are as prepared financially as you are and how many would invest those raises as diligently as you would?

I can only post my opinions which of course come from my individual situation. Pension plans are in trouble because retirees are living longer and the number of employees contributing to the plans is shrinking.

Just like in poker I hate to throw good money after bad. Will I accept my hypothetical pension check each month when I retire? Of course.

Would I be in favor of foregoing cash in hand now to increase contributions to the pension? No.

 

[bluehdmc]

,

Okay I 'll take the counter point.

I don't see how pouring more money into a pension fund that may or may not stay afloat long enough for me to collect from is better than having the money in my hand now to invest as I wish.

The pension plans are still claiming they are underfunded from the market downswing in 08-09. My investments have recovered everything I lost during the fall.

I have 25 years in and look at the pension sort of like social security. I don't trust there to really be any money left for me and I will control my finances so that I don't need it.

I have no debt and enough in the bank and markets for retirement with or without the pension. Give me the raise instead of raising the pension contribution. I trust myself more than I trust them.

It was explained ot me by one of the BA's from my local that one of the reasons pensions are "underfunded" was changes in reporting rules. For example if a fund in the begining has say $100 million in it and according to the guidelines it should grow at say 4% a year, in year 2 it should have $104 million, in year 5 somewhere's around $120+ million, etc. etc.

So year 2 where the fund is invested takes a hit and the fund is worth $98 mill, it's underfunded, the next year it's worth $105 mill, well it gained what it lost but it still considered underfunded by the guidelines. It should have been $108+.

This is a simple example but it is why all these funds are considered underfunded. Pension funds are invested by professional money people, when the stock market was roaring along, they made money and were heroes. Then the recession hit and they're recovering but there are also new reporting rules, I would assume some of the rules are a result of the financial meltdown.

You say you're investments have recovered everything you lost in the fall but how much have they grown?
Just look at UPS stock, it's recovered from it's low point during the fall, but with dividend factored in, how much has it grown?

 

[Re-Raise]

,

It was explained ot me by one of the BA's from my local that one of the reasons pensions are "underfunded" was changes in reporting rules. For example if a fund in the begining has say $100 million in it and according to the guidelines it should grow at say 4% a year, in year 2 it should have $104 million, in year 5 somewhere's around $120+ million, etc. etc.

So year 2 where the fund is invested takes a hit and the fund is worth $98 mill, it's underfunded, the next year it's worth $105 mill, well it gained what it lost but it still considered underfunded by the guidelines. It should have been $108+.

This is a simple example but it is why all these funds are considered underfunded. Pension funds are invested by professional money people, when the stock market was roaring along, they made money and were heroes. Then the recession hit and they're recovering but there are also new reporting rules, I would assume some of the rules are a result of the financial meltdown.

You say you're investments have recovered everything you lost in the fall but how much have they grown?
Just look at UPS stock, it's recovered from it's low point during the fall, but with dividend factored in, how much has it grown?

How much do these experts controlling our pension investments recieve in compensation?

If I make a mistake with my own money I live with the consequences.

I guess my plan as far as the pension goes is to stay healthy and live forever after I retire to really get my money's worth.

 

[JonFrum]

I agree with the above 100%. Give me my $$$$ now and I'll be responsible for my own retirement. Who's to say they will not wake up one day and just STOP the Pension Plan? They could just come out one day and say... From now on, no more payments to anyone.

Multi-employer pension funds are intended to be operated forever.

If every Contributing Employer withdrew at the same time, (called a "mass withdrawal"), the fund would continue paying out monthly pension checks for as long as its asset pool lasts.

In Central States' case, for example, that would be until their existing $19.8 billion is gone. Of course, many of those withdrawing employers would owe Withdrawal Liability Payments to the fund so (assuming they paid them) that would add billions more to the pile. When all the money is gone, the PBGC would step in (if it is itself still solvent) and retirees would continue receiving monthly checks, but at a much reduced amount.

 

[The Milkman]

Okay I 'll take the counter point.

I don't see how pouring more money into a pension fund that may or may not stay afloat long enough for me to collect from is better than having the money in my hand now to invest as I wish.

The pension plans are still claiming they are underfunded from the market downswing in 08-09. My investments have recovered everything I lost during the fall.

I have 25 years in and look at the pension sort of like social security. I don't trust there to really be any money left for me and I will control my finances so that I don't need it.

I have no debt and enough in the bank and markets for retirement with or without the pension. Give me the raise instead of raising the pension contribution. I trust myself more than I trust them.

Most people like myself start a job without really thinking 25-30 yrs ahead. A pension is a benefit along with wages that will help you make the decision of working at company or not.
You have enough money..well that's fine but most of us have debt of one sort or another although I knew many that started living at home with mom and dad paying little or no rent or are single and live simple and save and save and of course those folks will end up with a nice bag of cash.

My best move was to start putting into the 401k when it was offered and by the time I started Ups , I was just getting my 2nd divorce $$$ Child Support $$$ along with lawyers fees 25k $$$ and a handicapped son who to this day needs extra help $$$ So not every one can boast of having no debt etc etc.

I played my cards the best I could and with or without the 401k my pension has made my life and others better as an addition to what you may or may not be able to save over your carrer.

I knew 1 driver who was an only child who paid his folks I believe 2-300 a month for yrs and yrs.. He was heavy drinker and it took a while before he got married, probably 40 or so.....What do his parents do?? Give him all his rent money he paid them over the yrs I believe it was 50-60 K $$.. Buys a house, Mom dies a few yrs later...Dad dies few yrs after that..Guess who gets all the $$$ from the estate?? He is set when he retires in yr or two from now..He did not have brothers or sisters, no ex-wives etc etc so now he sits pretty and the pension is like in your case icing on the cake.

So the majority of people will not have this kind of so called windfall later in life, I know I got nothing.. More power to people whose lives work out well in the long run, if you don't need the money if you are in such good shape then why not help the pension as you will also benefit from it someday , If this was a perfect world we would not be in this position. If I lived like hermit and miser my whole life and stashed my $$ I would have alot..or they would find me dead somewhere living in a run down house surprised to know I was a millionaire living so simple. We go around once and all the $$ in the world will not make you live a day longer or buy you time..

I know people who live in a million $$ home and they are nervous about everything, can't retire early etc, I left at 55 and I told them If I could do it they could do it..I have so far a 3 year head start on them.. I sleep good at night because I dont have that much $$ to worry about.

If you have 25 yrs in then it would seem you would be close to getting it and I believe you would accept it and be thankful as it will be a good addition to all your other holdings, When I retired I told everyone that when I hang it up I will NOT work ever again..Retired means Retired..

 

[Re-Raise]

Like I said earlier I can only give my opinion. I trust myself more with the money I earn as compensation for the work I do than I do the teamsters, the government or anyone else.

Individual results may vary...

 

[The Milkman]

[Individual results may vary...[/QUOTE]

You can bank on That...................

 

[rod]

Like I said earlier I can only give my opinion. I trust myself more with the money I earn as compensation for the work I do than I do the teamsters, the government or anyone else.

Individual results may vary...

Thats a fact. I have a couple of friends who thought they were smart enough to invest in the market on their own and not go with a qualified financial adviser. They both dropped a bundle on what they considered "hot stocks". That was even before the market tanked. If I recall right one was even dumb enough to buy OPL stock instead of UPS.

 

[TUT]

Who's to say they will not wake up one day and just STOP the Pension Plan? They could just come out one day and say... From now on, no more payments to anyone.

They can just stop it one day through CBA. However if they are in business they will have a really tough time getting out of what is already due.

 

[JonFrum]

They can just stop it one day through CBA. However if they are in business they will have a really tough time getting out of what is already due.

After they stop accepting further contributions, both single-employer pension plans and multi-employer pension plans will continue to pay monthly retiree benefit checks so long as the money lasts. The PBGC will then pay retirees, at reduced amounts, until its money runs out.

Teamster-sponsored multi-employer funds are free-standing entities and are not dependent on collective bargaining at UPS. The UPS contract only determines if UPSers will continue to be participants, and at what hourly rate of contribution. The funds exist, with or without UPS participation.

On the other hand, the two UPS-run single-employer plans are totally dependent on collective bargaining and on the continued viability and willingness of UPS. The new UPS/IBT full-time employee plan for Central Staters, and the UPS Pension Plan for part-time Central Staters, are due to "expire" every time the Contract expires. They have to be renegotiated in their entirety. If UPS went bankrupt, or broke the union, or the members decertified the union, or the Contract was allowed to expire and a long strike or lockout took place, the funds would eventually shut down and the PBGC would take over.

UPSers in the Central States region have put all their pension eggs in one basket, and the basket only lasts about five years at a stretch.

 

[satellitedriver]

UPSers in the Central States region have put all their pension eggs in one basket, and the basket only lasts about five years at a stretch.

The UPS hen is still laying eggs.
Central States just has egg on their face.
Re-Raise is correct.
Your future is in your own hands.
My 401k has grown 250% over the S&P benchmark in the past ten years, while CS was going downhill.
Magic?
No.
Financial Investors advice?
No.
Saving, studying and making personal investment choices.
Yes.
I truly believe that if most took the time to learn and sacrifice, on the short term, that the long term benefits outweigh the initial cost.
97' set me free.

 

[brownmonster]

The UPS hen is still laying eggs.
Central States just has egg on their face.
Re-Raise is correct.
Your future is in your own hands.
My 401k has grown 250% over the S&P benchmark in the past ten years, while CS was going downhill.
Magic?
No.
Financial Investors advice?
No.
Saving, studying and making personal investment choices.
Yes.
I truly believe that if most took the time to learn and sacrifice, on the short term, that the long term benefits outweigh the initial cost.
97' set me free.

You missed your calling.