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Bible-Thumping Zealots On The BC
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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 644068" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>Tourist,</p><p> </p><p>No harm, sorry myself if I seem to come across rather harsh. To say that any one of us has all the answers, the exact keys that unlock all the doors would IMHO be foolhardy at the least. Even christians themselves don't agree on the exact course and last I heard there were over 300 various biblical translations of the bible, all differing in some manner in context and form. What about the numerous denominations of christian churches? They can't all be right can they? </p><p> </p><p>Even here amongst those who profess the christian faith we'd get a wide variety of dogma and doctrine so is God so scrambled that he/she (I personally dislike these personafied human terms but it does help us in our limited abilities of understanding) has put the divine word and divine revelation in so many conflicts in forms of text? Or is it that man wants to just shape God in his or her own image?</p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/surprised.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":surprised:" title="Surprised :surprised:" data-shortname=":surprised:" /> Do we in some measure of truth all stand guilty of this? I wouldn't object to that assertion. There in lay my point about human conceived texts we call the inerrant word of god.</p><p> </p><p>Even in the question of afterlife over time beliefs have in fact changed. The hebrew word "sheol" is translated hell, pit, grave in the bible and yet this word over time has had different understandings as to it's intent. Just with the word sheol here is what is called a <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/aft_bibl1.htm" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">"liberal"</span></a> POV and here the <a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/aft_bibl4.htm" target="_blank"><span style="color: red">"conservative"</span></a> POV and these aren't meant political terms in the way we've been Pavlov's dog trained to think and react. If the old testament texts used a word, Sheol in this case, would it not be wise to consider that word in the period of time it was used to represent? Just food for thought.</p><p> </p><p>Something to ponder and to me something that proves a powerful point. John Chapter 1 talks about "in the beginning there was the word" and word in the greek is logos or law. Taking that starting point, ponder the commandment "Thou shall not steal" and then imagine for a period of one year all of mankind could follow that commandment in perfection. What would that world be like? This is an exercise I do with my kids where we ponder a world where people followed the commandments against stealing, murder (theft of life if you will) coveiting, false witness. How would the world around us be and what would become obsolete that we consider pillars of our lives? It would truly shock and astound you if you pondered and you'd begin to see just how far away we are in our world today for just following these basic precepts but the flipside of this is you begin to see the beauty, wonderment and perfections in moral and ethical behavior among men if we'd just set out in that course. People see Jesus bringing a message of eternal life, eternal is the greek word eonian which means "of an age". We get the word eon from eonain and do we believe eon to mean eternal? Where you see heaven above from Jesus, I see an age of heaven on earth with a society of moral and ethical people. "Do unto others" IMO was a direct linkage back to the commandments that cover person to person life. That is nothing more than natural law found across the spectrum of mankind. These commandments were also found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead that predated the comandments given at Sinai and a chief pillar of life and custom from the one just departed from. </p><p> </p><p>Try sometime to imagine society in the manner I spoke above and see what ideas you develop. It will amaze and if you ponder enough you'll never look the same at our society again so be forewarned! Didn't Jesus warn the same thing?</p><p> </p><p>JimJimmyJames makes a good point about the natural revelation of god rather than man's revelation of god and once I started down that path and looking at nature's wonder I clearly saw the fingerprint of what we call God. You could say or it's IMO that nature itself and natural forces is the word of God and the means by understanding what we call God. I don't personify God anymore, at least I try (old habits and bad at that) because I don't know exactly what that force is but I don't think it would fit human terms or vision. Many would suggest the bible as the means of knowing God but remember regardless of all said, IMO this book has proven at best to be man's revelation of his understanding of God and what God wants of us. There are many good things in it, many which are of and fit natural law but there are also other things that violate and conflict with natural law of morals and ethics and then the question must arise of whom's self interests are served by such teachings?</p><p> </p><p>The old saying of never discuss religion only applies if one takes an authoraterain view that their belief is the only way possible. Once freedom to believe one's own path enters the picture, where is the point in which conflict begins? Where's the opposition that kicks in the defense mode? No one is prevented from his/her beliefs and the beauty of that is then people feel at ease to openly express their beliefs and often times much common ground is discovered followed by understanding and respect. And this transcends religion to all manner of life IMO. We don't all eat the same food, wear the same cloths or drive the same car and are completely free to do so but belief in the greater things of life should be that way as well yet do we never discuss food, cloths or the family car in polite company?</p><p> </p><p>"Do unto others as you'd have them do undo you!"</p><p> </p><p>WOW! What a remarkable concept if we'd only begin to follow that very ideal! But it's an ideal we still all stumble to achieve.</p><p> </p><p>Be Cool! <img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/FeltTip/peaceful.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":peaceful:" title="Peaceful :peaceful:" data-shortname=":peaceful:" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 644068, member: 2189"] Tourist, No harm, sorry myself if I seem to come across rather harsh. To say that any one of us has all the answers, the exact keys that unlock all the doors would IMHO be foolhardy at the least. Even christians themselves don't agree on the exact course and last I heard there were over 300 various biblical translations of the bible, all differing in some manner in context and form. What about the numerous denominations of christian churches? They can't all be right can they? Even here amongst those who profess the christian faith we'd get a wide variety of dogma and doctrine so is God so scrambled that he/she (I personally dislike these personafied human terms but it does help us in our limited abilities of understanding) has put the divine word and divine revelation in so many conflicts in forms of text? Or is it that man wants to just shape God in his or her own image? :surprised: Do we in some measure of truth all stand guilty of this? I wouldn't object to that assertion. There in lay my point about human conceived texts we call the inerrant word of god. Even in the question of afterlife over time beliefs have in fact changed. The hebrew word "sheol" is translated hell, pit, grave in the bible and yet this word over time has had different understandings as to it's intent. Just with the word sheol here is what is called a [URL="http://www.religioustolerance.org/aft_bibl1.htm"][COLOR=red]"liberal"[/COLOR][/URL] POV and here the [URL="http://www.religioustolerance.org/aft_bibl4.htm"][COLOR=red]"conservative"[/COLOR][/URL] POV and these aren't meant political terms in the way we've been Pavlov's dog trained to think and react. If the old testament texts used a word, Sheol in this case, would it not be wise to consider that word in the period of time it was used to represent? Just food for thought. Something to ponder and to me something that proves a powerful point. John Chapter 1 talks about "in the beginning there was the word" and word in the greek is logos or law. Taking that starting point, ponder the commandment "Thou shall not steal" and then imagine for a period of one year all of mankind could follow that commandment in perfection. What would that world be like? This is an exercise I do with my kids where we ponder a world where people followed the commandments against stealing, murder (theft of life if you will) coveiting, false witness. How would the world around us be and what would become obsolete that we consider pillars of our lives? It would truly shock and astound you if you pondered and you'd begin to see just how far away we are in our world today for just following these basic precepts but the flipside of this is you begin to see the beauty, wonderment and perfections in moral and ethical behavior among men if we'd just set out in that course. People see Jesus bringing a message of eternal life, eternal is the greek word eonian which means "of an age". We get the word eon from eonain and do we believe eon to mean eternal? Where you see heaven above from Jesus, I see an age of heaven on earth with a society of moral and ethical people. "Do unto others" IMO was a direct linkage back to the commandments that cover person to person life. That is nothing more than natural law found across the spectrum of mankind. These commandments were also found in the Egyptian Book of the Dead that predated the comandments given at Sinai and a chief pillar of life and custom from the one just departed from. Try sometime to imagine society in the manner I spoke above and see what ideas you develop. It will amaze and if you ponder enough you'll never look the same at our society again so be forewarned! Didn't Jesus warn the same thing? JimJimmyJames makes a good point about the natural revelation of god rather than man's revelation of god and once I started down that path and looking at nature's wonder I clearly saw the fingerprint of what we call God. You could say or it's IMO that nature itself and natural forces is the word of God and the means by understanding what we call God. I don't personify God anymore, at least I try (old habits and bad at that) because I don't know exactly what that force is but I don't think it would fit human terms or vision. Many would suggest the bible as the means of knowing God but remember regardless of all said, IMO this book has proven at best to be man's revelation of his understanding of God and what God wants of us. There are many good things in it, many which are of and fit natural law but there are also other things that violate and conflict with natural law of morals and ethics and then the question must arise of whom's self interests are served by such teachings? The old saying of never discuss religion only applies if one takes an authoraterain view that their belief is the only way possible. Once freedom to believe one's own path enters the picture, where is the point in which conflict begins? Where's the opposition that kicks in the defense mode? No one is prevented from his/her beliefs and the beauty of that is then people feel at ease to openly express their beliefs and often times much common ground is discovered followed by understanding and respect. And this transcends religion to all manner of life IMO. We don't all eat the same food, wear the same cloths or drive the same car and are completely free to do so but belief in the greater things of life should be that way as well yet do we never discuss food, cloths or the family car in polite company? "Do unto others as you'd have them do undo you!" WOW! What a remarkable concept if we'd only begin to follow that very ideal! But it's an ideal we still all stumble to achieve. Be Cool! :peaceful: [/QUOTE]
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