Discharged for Misloads

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

we have a had employess at our center get what they call a " working suspension" meaning we don't have anyone here to work your postion so you get a suspension but keep working till grievance is heard. whats that? working suspension......the uinon should not let that happen..

A working suspension actually helps both sides as it gives UPS a body to fill a position and allows the suspendee to work while serving his suspension. This is normally limited to relatively minor offenses. I was actually given a working suspension early on in my career and I was thankful that I was given the chance to work through my suspension rather than sit home for the 3 or 5 days or whatever it was. I do not recall the circumstances behind my suspension and the details aren't important to this thread but the point is a working suspension is one of the discipline choices available to management. As far as the Union not letting that happen, I don't understand that statement as I always thought the Union was there to support its members and to try to keep them working.

 

[backinbrown]

A working suspension actually helps both sides as it gives UPS a body to fill a position and allows the suspendee to work while serving his suspension. This is normally limited to relatively minor offenses. I was actually given a working suspension early on in my career and I was thankful that I was given the chance to work through my suspension rather than sit home for the 3 or 5 days or whatever it was. I do not recall the circumstances behind my suspension and the details aren't important to this thread but the point is a working suspension is one of the discipline choices available to management. As far as the Union not letting that happen, I don't understand that statement as I always thought the Union was there to support its members and to try to keep them working.

I agree

 

[705red]

we have a had employess at our center get what they call a " working suspension" meaning we don't have anyone here to work your postion so you get a suspension but keep working till grievance is heard.



whats that?
working suspension......the uinon should not let that happen..

It could also be a notice of suspension, which means the union does not agree with it so you will continue to work until the case is heard and a decision is reached. At that time you might be suspended.

 

[gandydancer]

we have a had employess at our center get what they call a " working suspension" meaning we don't have anyone here to work your postion so you get a suspension but keep working till grievance is heard.



whats that?
working suspension......the uinon should not let that happen..

Until the grievance is heard it's not a suspension, working or otherwise.

 

[thelus]

I know here in local 705 you can only be disciplined if a supervisor catches you in the act of misloading. No one here the the Chicago area can be disciplined for anything that shows up on a report that came from electronic means. Management has to see it. Meaning if you're misloading to the point a supervisor catches you ,you're not following your methods. i.e 1. "working to the best of your ability" 2. check label 3. make sure the package goes in the trailer. 4. build a nice wall. also use your load stand. If you use your methods there is nothing management can discipline you for. Sure they can yell at you until they are blue in the face because your belt if backed up to the primary but hey your working safe(using your load stand and SWM) building nice walls in a trailer, and not misloading. Remember they cant fire your for production numbers. So my friends just laugh it off and say "i'm working to the best of my ability" when a supervisor tells you to go faster.

 

[fethrs]

I think he is a 22.3 worker...ups is "dissolving" these jobs all over.(I'm sure all of our names will stay on list of 20,000) When moved into new pt spots management is and has been targeting these employees. all of the ones here that are going package are been overloaded and watched. The word off the grapevine from management was to get ride of them(on all shifts) i could give you a list of things that are being done here! they are going to do everything they can to get rid of us.

I am a 22.3 and a few of us just had our jobs reconfigured by UPS and the local union after being laid off from the second half of the job. As far as I know they have not "dissolved" any of the 22.3 jobs at my hub. I don't at all feel targeted or watched and I am not worried about losing my 8 hours or my job, don't know about other places but I feel I'm safe

 

[Red Dawn]

I am a 22.3 and a few of us just had our jobs reconfigured by UPS and the local union after being laid off from the second half of the job. As far as I know they have not "dissolved" any of the 22.3 jobs at my hub. I don't at all feel targeted or watched and I am not worried about losing my 8 hours or my job, don't know about other places but I feel I'm safe

wish i could say the same..on twilight side they are writing us up if we are 1 min. late. Yes 1 min. we don't even do anything for 10mins till they figure what we will do. Problem is they got rid of midnight shift and instead of laying off anyone they are putting them on twl. I made number 100 on ramp and they say they only need 75. they will not recertify us right now they we just load cans straight into trailers in the dark. we have about 7-10 sups hanging out claiming they are their to make sure we work safe.

even though contract states that if we take 2 pt jobs that we will still get our 8hrs. Manager told me first night that they will only being paid for 3.5hrs. (that's the first sentence in layoff language if you can or do only one pt job, Next sentence same paragraph states the 8hr.) Said she is doing what she was told. First night with her she only works use 3. I asked if i need to go in hub or what. was told to clock out now. Twl hub is now running 6.5-7.5 hrs. one shift.
combos that had pick rev recover (box flipper) have been put into trailers w no help. pter doubled up.
on preload one of our combo guys they are trying to kill him. they now that he has high blood pressure. And instead of giving him a clerk, small sort, ect. they have him loading trucks. He blood pressure was so high his doctor gave him stronger med. He's a good hard worker but they want to D.Q. him.
combos that went back to pck. are being way overloaded. and trucks that were assigned to rout (newer truck) they have been reassigned to another dr. and given older trucks.
this is only a few of the things at are going on...if you want to hear more i can go on and on. have stayed in contact with all the people that I've worked with. if you doubt me just ask bellsmom or Casper to start..
hope i don't bore you with our problems. It just doesn't make sense to use with all the jobs we have at our hub. And most of all that i have been replace with 2 pters. no joking. both of my jobs, and work is still their.

 

[jennie]

wish i could say the same..on twilight side they are writing us up if we are 1 min. late. Yes 1 min. we don't even do anything for 10mins till they figure what we will do. Problem is they got rid of midnight shift and instead of laying off anyone they are putting them on twl. I made number 100 on ramp and they say they only need 75. they will not recertify us right now they we just load cans straight into trailers in the dark. we have about 7-10 sups hanging out claiming they are their to make sure we work safe.

even though contract states that if we take 2 pt jobs that we will still get our 8hrs. Manager told me first night that they will only being paid for 3.5hrs. (that's the first sentence in layoff language if you can or do only one pt job, Next sentence same paragraph states the 8hr.) Said she is doing what she was told. First night with her she only works use 3. I asked if i need to go in hub or what. was told to clock out now. Twl hub is now running 6.5-7.5 hrs. one shift.
combos that had pick rev recover (box flipper) have been put into trailers w no help. pter doubled up.
on preload one of our combo guys they are trying to kill him. they now that he has high blood pressure. And instead of giving him a clerk, small sort, ect. they have him loading trucks. He blood pressure was so high his doctor gave him stronger med. He's a good hard worker but they want to D.Q. him.
combos that went back to pck. are being way overloaded. and trucks that were assigned to rout (newer truck) they have been reassigned to another dr. and given older trucks.
this is only a few of the things at are going on...if you want to hear more i can go on and on. have stayed in contact with all the people that I've worked with. if you doubt me just ask bellsmom or Casper to start..
hope i don't bore you with our problems. It just doesn't make sense to use with all the jobs we have at our hub. And most of all that i have been replace with 2 pters. no joking. both of my jobs, and work is still their.

I work preload and they are watching ALL come in at the clock also. I am glad too. As I am on time every day! The union does not help you get to work. I feel you should come in 10 minutes before your start time. You don't have to work but just be there. As for the sorting, I do not work on boxline but sorted today, which for me is a lot work, so I give the men so much credit that lift everyday. I feel bad for a lot of the older guys I see too, a really good guy just left last month, just couldn't do it, the getting up, the lifting, and waiting a year for that insurance. It will never make sense. Oh and I didn't get my 3/12 yesterday, it was slow, which is scary.

 

[Red Dawn]

I work preload and they are watching ALL come in at the clock also. I am glad too. As I am on time every day! The union does not help you get to work. I feel you should come in 10 minutes before your start time. You don't have to work but just be there. As for the sorting, I do not work on boxline but sorted today, which for me is a lot work, so I give the men so much credit that lift everyday. I feel bad for a lot of the older guys I see too, a really good guy just left last month, just couldn't do it, the getting up, the lifting, and waiting a year for that insurance. It will never make sense. Oh and I didn't get my 3/12 yesterday, it was slow, which is scary.

I agree with you that we should be on time to work, but to write someone up for being 1 min late..come on. especially when this rule is ONLY being applied to the full timers that have been "dissolved" (dissolved is what it said on our letter we get from ups) This guy would come in early, but this is a new shift and ran into traffic. he is now coming to work at 500pm and for the past 10yrs he was a night worker coming in at 11pm.

Far as hours, we have plenty of work! twl hub alone is working from6-7hrs a knight! preload is running about 4.5 but not using us more than 3.5-3.75. I think that each shift is going to point the finger to the other to make up the hours.

and anther fun dill i confirmation that one of the preload-driver helper that is 88 on seniority list still is doing he job and i, that is #40 is having to take spilt shifts. I am qualified for every thing expect feeders. driver, ramp, hub, forklift. Spoke with center manger about it. His response was just, "well did you sign the new list that our up?" of course i did. But what does that have to do with fact that this jr. employee gets to keep his full time pay and hours. While i have to work split shift at part time pay and less than eight in a day.
Don't get me wrong i like ups, i think it is good company, just don't like what they are doing. If they would just honor the contract i would not complain. If i got a quote on having work done on my car. and after looking at the amount and agreeing to work. And then after work has been done i decide, yea i don't want to pay this amount, ill give you half. not going to fly.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I work preload and they are watching ALL come in at the clock also. I am glad too. As I am on time every day! The union does not help you get to work. I feel you should come in 10 minutes before your start time. You don't have to work but just be there. As for the sorting, I do not work on boxline but sorted today, which for me is a lot work, so I give the men so much credit that lift everyday. I feel bad for a lot of the older guys I see too, a really good guy just left last month, just couldn't do it, the getting up, the lifting, and waiting a year for that insurance. It will never make sense. Oh and I didn't get my 3/12 yesterday, it was slow, which is scary.

If you punch into work, you get 3 1/2, period, unless you volunteer to go.

 

[pissedoffmanager]

Yes, you can be terminated for misloads, but it is spelled out that a specific chain of discipline has to occur before termination. I did see people get terminated for misloads twice, but each time they got their job back in a relatively short period of time. I don't know why some people are saying that the Teamsters won't help for misload terminations, because they were insturmental in getting these guys back to work at my old center.

 

[705red]

Yes, you can be terminated for misloads, but it is spelled out that a specific chain of discipline has to occur before termination. I did see people get terminated for misloads twice, but each time they got their job back in a relatively short period of time. I don't know why some people are saying that the Teamsters won't help for misload terminations, because they were insturmental in getting these guys back to work at my old center.

The question i get all the time is "can ups fire me for this"? I alwasy reply ups fires people for all sorts of thing all the time. The question is will it stick and i usually reply to each case specifically.

Here the teamsters do not recognize discipline for misloads/missorts. There's several reasons.
You have sups working from pull to pull and its to hard to say who misloaded the package car.
Ups has created dangerous work areas, with smalls laying all over the floor at the sorters feet, the egress being blocked in the primary and trailers having packages 5 feet high at the opening blocking the employees exit in case of emergency.

You should see the pictures i have from last night! I know osha will!

 

[Bubblehead]

The question i get all the time is "can ups fire me for this"? I alwasy reply ups fires people for all sorts of thing all the time. The question is will it stick and i usually reply to each case specifically.

I get the same questions and reply the same way. Unfortunately more often than not whether the charge is trumped up or not, the employee is usually put back to work time served. This is their trade off and it's a shame. In my state the panel is very stingy with back pay. If the company was forced to truely make these employees whole, the company wouldn't be as quick to terminate. It would seem the company's philosophy is to throw these charges at the wall and see if it sticks.

 

[dillweed]

I don't feel they can make a discharge for misloads stick due to the many ways misloads can happen.

However, I do feel that if they can push a loader's buttons to the point of frustrated swearing or obvious anger they can do some serious damage in the way of threatening or violent behavior. The union doesn't do much in the way of backing up violent employees.

So please learn from this dangerous and dreaded, knife carrying, murderous, swearing and maniac grandmother of two - yes, the same one who bakes cookies and kisses bunny rabbits - Keep your cool or keep your mouth shut. Don't look anyone in the eye or it can be taken as a threat. Keep your arms limp beside you so no one fears you will strike them. And, by all means, don't toss a baggie full of those home baked cookies to a co-worker or it will be seen as an all-out attack.

 

[gandydancer]

I know here in local 705 you can only be disciplined if a supervisor catches you in the act of misloading. No one here the the Chicago area can be disciplined for anything that shows up on a report that came from electronic means. Management has to see it. Meaning if you're misloading to the point a supervisor catches you ,you're not following your methods. i.e 1. "working to the best of your ability" 2. check label 3. make sure the package goes in the trailer. 4. build a nice wall. also use your load stand. If you use your methods there is nothing management can discipline you for. Sure they can yell at you until they are blue in the face because your belt if backed up to the primary but hey your working safe(using your load stand and SWM) building nice walls in a trailer, and not misloading. Remember they cant fire your for production numbers. So my friends just laugh it off and say "i'm working to the best of my ability" when a supervisor tells you to go faster.

Know the methods better than your supes. The important thing is not to cut corners and speed up when they get on your case. You don't want your "demonstrated level of performance" to go up when they watch and harass you. Build 'em tight and level and all the way to the ceiling ribs, and take the time it takes. Just keep your cool and enjoy the steam leaking out of their ears. This can have interesting results (I had my own personal supervisor in the trailer with me for several months -- actually, that was unload, and, no, I did not let him touch the boxes -- and one coordinator was so unhappy at the sight of me that I was exiled to a trailer in a quiet corner of the building that got only a few walls worth of boxes all night, all peak) but eventually management learns that they are going to get what they are going to get from you, and will leave you alone.

 

[pissedoffmanager]

The way the preload manager used to do it here is to "terminate" them, after suspensions and warning letters, they were always "terminated" for failing to follow methods. I know it is different in every other center, but I never saw anyone "fired" for this and not come back. They always worked up until the panel hearing and then the preload manager would appear and something would always be worked out. I always signed off on it, because it was more of an intimidation method than anything, scare them into thinking they may be fired!

 

[thelus]

always always follow methods. nothing can happen to you if you follow your methods

 

[gandydancer]

always always follow methods. nothing can happen to you if you follow your methods

Won't stop all misloads, even if you're perfect. Had one night where there were four different packages loaded in three different trailers to San Francisco by three different loaders at four different times -- all from the same shipper. Had to be bad labelling. But if there had been only one you wouldn't know that. *ding*

 

[springrubber]

You guys should come work in SoCal. There are no standards for preload here. I ODS every misload to the DPS Supervisor every day. On monday I had 15. I consider a misload to be on the wrong shelf and I had FIFTEEN of these. He is still there.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

You guys should come work in SoCal. There are no standards for preload here. I ODS every misload to the DPS Supervisor every day. On monday I had 15. I consider a misload to be on the wrong shelf and I had FIFTEEN of these. He is still there.

You are kidding, right? You ODS a misload simply because the kid put it on the wrong shelf? At least he got in on the right car. A misload is a pkg that is on your pkg car that shouldn't be. Period. You are being far too critical.

My loader does a fantastic job not only in following PAS but in using common sense when building the load. If he has a bulk stop which has been PALLED to a shelf but he knows it would work better if he loaded it on the floor he does and then tells me. He knows that the college uses several different addresses, which are all PALLED to different locations, and loads them all in the same place. Does he occasionally load a pkg on the wrong shelf? Absolutely. Do I whine about it? Absolutely not. This kid absolutely makes my day go much smoother.