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<blockquote data-quote="wkmac" data-source="post: 97313" data-attributes="member: 2189"><p>First off Nospin, let's set one thing straight for the record if you are implying my overall views being Pro-APWA. They are not "PRO" but neither am I "ANTI" APWA either. I do like APWA being on the scene because I think other thinking and some competition is good. One beef I do have with you APWA cheerleaders here is I've found at times you make statements that can't be backed up or it was never an APWA position to begin with. Case in point was last year a APWA cheerleader claimed that Skillman and Eason had a plan to take 2 years worth of raises and this would raise enough money to buyout all UPS credit for current and retired UPSers form IBT pension plans and transfer them to the APWA plans and then we could all retire on schedule at an even better benefit that we had prior to the 03' changes. I spoke with Skillman personally and there was never any such plan like that at all. Now Skillman was forthright and honest with me and told me flat out any move to APWA would come to a clean slate where credit would have to be earned over time and that past credit would require you to draw a check form IBT plan and then from an APWA plan if you had enough credits before you retired. He also told me that although he wished something could be done he quite frankly just saw no other way around it and admitted for guys with many years service including himself it would be a sacrifice. I've always admired, respected and appreciated his honesty on that.</p><p> </p><p>You cheerleader types come here rah-rahing all over the place but at the end of the day I really wonder if you aren't as deceptive as you claim the IBT or in some cases UPS of being? APWA has a lot of good ideas and good going for it but also be man enough like Skillman was with me to admit they aren't able to solve all the problems. It's a fact because nobody and I mean nobody is gonna solve this with somebody having to get hurt and foot the bill. We made our bed in 97' so IMHO it's our problem alone to clean up and if any pain is to be felt it should us first and foremost.</p><p> </p><p>Just My Honest Opinion!</p><p> </p><p>BTW: Concerning not understanding my comments to oldups from a pro-APWA Viewpoint? You got a very narrow view my friend because those comments (early contract) had nothing to do with any position regarding APWA or IBT period! Besides, during the rebranding announcment for UPS, Eskew himself spoke of "One UPS"! Concerning organizing UPS Freight, UPS has also greenlighted the IBT to organize the Freight division if they can so if you understand where UPS wants to go you'll understand the "One UPS" idea. If you think UPS will always maintain 2 different networks and no where in the future is the thinking to have a one network meets all demands then you sure missed the boat on the longterm thinking of this company. Besides, these folks have no longterm investment with IBT plans so it will come down to judging one plan against the other and if APWA could gain significant membership numbers among the freight folks, it could allow them to have proven creditibility for the longterm IBT UPSers. Think about that for a moment!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wkmac, post: 97313, member: 2189"] First off Nospin, let's set one thing straight for the record if you are implying my overall views being Pro-APWA. They are not "PRO" but neither am I "ANTI" APWA either. I do like APWA being on the scene because I think other thinking and some competition is good. One beef I do have with you APWA cheerleaders here is I've found at times you make statements that can't be backed up or it was never an APWA position to begin with. Case in point was last year a APWA cheerleader claimed that Skillman and Eason had a plan to take 2 years worth of raises and this would raise enough money to buyout all UPS credit for current and retired UPSers form IBT pension plans and transfer them to the APWA plans and then we could all retire on schedule at an even better benefit that we had prior to the 03' changes. I spoke with Skillman personally and there was never any such plan like that at all. Now Skillman was forthright and honest with me and told me flat out any move to APWA would come to a clean slate where credit would have to be earned over time and that past credit would require you to draw a check form IBT plan and then from an APWA plan if you had enough credits before you retired. He also told me that although he wished something could be done he quite frankly just saw no other way around it and admitted for guys with many years service including himself it would be a sacrifice. I've always admired, respected and appreciated his honesty on that. You cheerleader types come here rah-rahing all over the place but at the end of the day I really wonder if you aren't as deceptive as you claim the IBT or in some cases UPS of being? APWA has a lot of good ideas and good going for it but also be man enough like Skillman was with me to admit they aren't able to solve all the problems. It's a fact because nobody and I mean nobody is gonna solve this with somebody having to get hurt and foot the bill. We made our bed in 97' so IMHO it's our problem alone to clean up and if any pain is to be felt it should us first and foremost. Just My Honest Opinion! BTW: Concerning not understanding my comments to oldups from a pro-APWA Viewpoint? You got a very narrow view my friend because those comments (early contract) had nothing to do with any position regarding APWA or IBT period! Besides, during the rebranding announcment for UPS, Eskew himself spoke of "One UPS"! Concerning organizing UPS Freight, UPS has also greenlighted the IBT to organize the Freight division if they can so if you understand where UPS wants to go you'll understand the "One UPS" idea. If you think UPS will always maintain 2 different networks and no where in the future is the thinking to have a one network meets all demands then you sure missed the boat on the longterm thinking of this company. Besides, these folks have no longterm investment with IBT plans so it will come down to judging one plan against the other and if APWA could gain significant membership numbers among the freight folks, it could allow them to have proven creditibility for the longterm IBT UPSers. Think about that for a moment! [/QUOTE]
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