If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed or ad

[tieguy]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

Leave the 8hr language alone or make it stronger.

Remove the GPS language.

Remove the "Act of God" provision for supervisors working.


The rest I can live with.

The act of god concept has always been there and pretty much supported by the union so why wouldn't you want the language spelled out in the contract?

 

[Bill]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

Not for arguments sake of whether its valid or justified or not, what are the top three things people want addressed or changed if this thing is sent down? Mind you, this includes yes voters, if this thing is sent down, what things would you want on top of what is offered?
Lets try to keep this thread non-argumentative and counter-debate-neutral (whatever that means), lets just see the issues that people are concerned about.

The three top things I would like are:

No split wage increase.

More combo/full-time job language

Stronger article 34 language. Especially as related to health insurance and re-allocation of GWI.

We need a guarantee written in the contract that if CS is not able to meet the pension payment, then UPS will guarantee to pay the pension after age 65. Also, we need a cost of living adjustment built into the pension, as each year the pension check is worth less and less as inflation rises.

 

[Cole]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

Also we should be able to stay free at any Holiday Inn Express! lol

 

[Braveheart]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

The only thing that really struck me is the way you worded this. Do you think GPS language should not be used for discipline even if it can be verified as accurate and the driver was really doing something wrong?

I agree that it should not be used frivolously or abused in any shape or form so I'm not sure exactly how you intended your comment.

Reread the GPS wording. It states that you can not be fired on the FIRST offense if based SOLELY on info from GPS!

If you have GPS AND some other people info etc they CAN FIRE YOU on the FIRST offense!!

And now they CAN FIRE YOU on the SECOND offense based SOLELY on GPS info!

Look, I tell people to stay on their areas as I do, but things happen with a job that does not allow you to start late, leave early, work a half day, or take an extended lunch like other jobs!!!!
What is considered OFF AREA??? What if you took a different route back to building to avoid traffic, to go pick up RX so you do not call in sick the next day, or to go to Dr due to illness?? What if you went home ON YOUR LUNCH time and not one minute more to ice your knees?????

 

[tieguy]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

Reread the GPS wording. It states that you can not be fired on the FIRST offense if based SOLELY on info from GPS!

If you have GPS AND some other people info etc they CAN FIRE YOU on the FIRST offense!!

And now they CAN FIRE YOU on the SECOND offense based SOLELY on GPS info!

Look, I tell people to stay on their areas as I do, but things happen with a job that does not allow you to start late, leave early, work a half day, or take an extended lunch like other jobs!!!!
What is considered OFF AREA??? What if you took a different route back to building to avoid traffic, to go pick up RX so you do not call in sick the next day, or to go to Dr due to illness?? What if you went home ON YOUR LUNCH time and not one minute more to ice your knees?????

I wonder if we had the same fear of technology when cameras and video recorders first came out.

Whats the fear here? Is GPS accurate and reliable in placing your location? How accurate and reliable is it?

 

[browned out]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

I wonder if we had the same fear of technology when cameras and video recorders first came out.

Whats the fear here? Is GPS accurate and reliable in placing your location? How accurate and reliable is it?

I believe we would have feared camera and video technology if they could get people fired whether one was in the right or wrong.

The fear here is that the GPS is not accurate. I have been at at least ten stops (spot on) and my board tells me I'm at wrong location.

The "can't be fired solely based on gps for first offense" is unacceptable as earlier poster stated. 2nd offense and your done until "if your lucky" and can prove GPS was inaccurate you get your job back 3 months later without pay.

We are not playing games here. We get discharged. We don't get sent to Midnights or to a less desirable hub or center for punishment. The vast majority of the time the slap on the wrist only applies to management.

 

[downtowner]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

1) Fed Ex would not take any of our volume.

2)UPS would not have to raise rates (abnormally) thereby making us even less competitive.

3)Teamsters would not lose its last major bargaining unit by putting
UPS in the position of having to bust the union to survive long term.

I can see the trees through the forest,... thank you

 

[downtowner]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

1) More staring money for ptimers! At least $12 an hour!

2) More 22.3 jobs, we all win when we get a combo preloader loading our trucks.

3) Leave us with our current language, and we will take the petty raises!

(1)Yeah, give the guy (girl) who stays 8 months a $4 per hr pay raise and give the long term employee a 35 cent raise... sounds great.

How about, "you stay, we'll pay" language for PTers?

(2) 50% of the seniority employees just plain suck at loading a pkg car, so giving them more hours is good , but it won't give me a good load.

(3) adressed in (1)

 

[tieguy]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

I believe we would have feared camera and video technology if they could get people fired whether one was in the right or wrong.

The fear here is that the GPS is not accurate. I have been at at least ten stops (spot on) and my board tells me I'm at wrong location.

The "can't be fired solely based on gps for first offense" is unacceptable as earlier poster stated. 2nd offense and your done until "if your lucky" and can prove GPS was inaccurate you get your job back 3 months later without pay.

We are not playing games here. We get discharged. We don't get sent to Midnights or to a less desirable hub or center for punishment. The vast majority of the time the slap on the wrist only applies to management.

Ok. Your union says its a good contract and you should vote for it. Do you agree with them or do you think they are also being dishonest.

The reason I ask is because the people you pay to represent you and the people who have litigated a lot more cases then you ever will are the ones who felt comfortable with this language.

How is it that these people who have represented members at so many discharge hearings over the years could miss out on the same fears that you have?

Or is your argument that you think management gets away with dishonesty therefore the drivers should also?

 

[sawdusttv]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

Ok. Your union says its a good contract and you should vote for it. Do you agree with them or do you think they are also being dishonest.

The reason I ask is because the people you pay to represent you and the people who have litigated a lot more cases then you ever will are the ones who felt comfortable with this language.

How is it that these people who have represented members at so many discharge hearings over the years could miss out on the same fears that you have?

Or is your argument that you think management gets away with dishonesty therefore the drivers should also?

Tie, You are good at answering questions with questions ( classic UPS management training).
You seem to be asking the same questions over and over, that you can't understand why we are not supporting the unions recommendation. Let me explain it to you one more time, straight up, so that you don't have to keep asking the same question again.
The reason for our distain for the unions stance on the proposed contract is that, we feel, they are no longer looking out for our best interest, they have aligned themselves with management to line there own pockets at the expense of the rank and file, we have been sold up the river like a two dollar ****!
Now, can you understand our stance so you can quit asking the same question over and over, and rephrasing the question does not change the question.

To address your next comment!
Yes, they are our elected officials, and GOD only knows how they were elacted. But those elected officials have turned on us, stabbed us in the back, if you will. Our only option at this point is to fight them and what they are trying to do to us and our future. One thing that I feel fairly stong about however, is that these union leaders have signed there own exit papers, and the next time there is an election there will be a house cleaning such as you have never seen.

 

[02hawk]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

We all know mgmt is DISHONEST.I was sent messages yesterday saying "why were you at this stop for 26 min and picked up 10 pkgs and why were you here for 16 min. I was not at those places for that amount of time.They are wrong,and already trying to use this against language against me.

 

[sawdusttv]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

We all know mgmt is DISHONEST.I was sent messages yesterday saying "why were you at this stop for 26 min and picked up 10 pkgs and why were you here for 16 min. I was not at those places for that amount of time.They are wrong,and already trying to use this against language against me.

Take notice people!
This is what you have to look forward to if this contract passes!!!!!!!!!

 

[Scooter1]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

simple response:

NO CONCESSIONS!!!

 

[705red]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

(1)Yeah, give the guy (girl) who stays 8 months a $4 per hr pay raise and give the long term employee a 35 cent raise... sounds great.

You must be new to reading and understanding sentences! I addressed the starting pay for ptimers, never did i talk about raises annually as u assumed! Okay mister i know it all, how do we as a company plan to get new long term employees at $8.50 an hour and no medical?

How about, "you stay, we'll pay" language for PTers?

How can they stay if they wont start at minimum wage?

(2) 50% of the seniority employees just plain suck at loading a pkg car, so giving them more hours is good , but it won't give me a good load.

How hard will you work for $8.50 an hour? What is in it for the ptimer to care when the 3 drivers are making $20 an hour more to deliver the same three trucks that he just made $30 to $40 to load what the drivers will make $900 to deliver?
(3) adressed in (1)

You have not addresed anything! Better luck next time!

 

[longlunchguy]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

The act of god concept has always been there and pretty much supported by the union so why wouldn't you want the language spelled out in the contract?

The problem is my center manager thinks he is God

 

[tieguy]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

Tie, You are good at answering questions with questions ( classic UPS management training).
You seem to be asking the same questions over and over, that you can't understand why we are not supporting the unions recommendation. Let me explain it to you one more time, straight up, so that you don't have to keep asking the same question again.
The reason for our distain for the unions stance on the proposed contract is that, we feel, they are no longer looking out for our best interest, they have aligned themselves with management to line there own pockets at the expense of the rank and file, we have been sold up the river like a two dollar ****!
Now, can you understand our stance so you can quit asking the same question over and over, and rephrasing the question does not change the question.

If I make the assumption that you are now the leader of this group and that you speak for everyone then I can stop asking that question. The point remains for the rest though in that why would those who actually deal with the discharge cases and therefore those that will be responsible for fighting future discharge cases do not feel as threatened as you and others over this language? Its a legitimate question unless you're into union / management conspiracy theories like you are.

 

[sawdusttv]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

First off, I never said that I was the leader, but there are many that have the same point of view that I do, on this forum.

Also, I never said that I persoally feel threatened by the language, ( I have never been in any serious trouble at work), that does not change the fact that it could cause hourlies trouble in the future, and if it is not threatening, why not strike it from the contract, if it server no porpose?
As far as those who actually deal with the discharges, it isn't their head on the chopping block, and I do have questions as to how much effort these people put into protecting the jobs of the rank and file.

Lastly, the union / management conspiracy theories.
It is far more than a theory my friend and you know it!
Our union leaders have sold their soul to the devil and are collecting there gold coins in exchange for selling us out as we speak. If you don't believe this.
You just sit right back there and see what happens to them when election time rolls around.

 

[magoo57]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

How about what a supervisor would wish to see in the new contract?
One: Proof that parttimers are considered an asset to the company. Every UPSer who has ten years in with the company should be given the opportunity to go full time.
Two: REVERSE 22.3 JOBS FOR DRIVERS IN THEIR TWILIGHT YEARS. I am in my 50s myself, so I am NOT suggesting that all older drivers should be put out to pasture. What I am saying isthat if a valuable employee has worn out his back to the point that the job is torturous, allow him to shift his job. Let him bump down and work a shift at the small sort or even the Customer Counter. Allow his other shift to possibly be a cover driver. This way we keep good drivers good. And the best advertisement for UPS is a professional, happy driver.
Three: The Supervisor full disclosure act. All p/t and friend/t supes should be graded by the number and severity of the greivances filed against them in the past year, as well as the number of injuries that have occurred under their watch in that same year.And this info should be available to the persons working under them or potentially working under them. When I think of all of the butt- kissing fools that just so happen to look like they could have walked off a Nazi recruiting poster- these idiots that threaten life and limb but suck up to their boss- ARRGHHH!!! You see the rating for every restaurant that you visit- why shouldn't you see the "rating" for your boss? Where are you more likely to die? Eating a Big Mac or working in an unsafe environment?
And why shouldn't your boss have to defend his record? This is a more nuts- and -bolts way of grading a supe than this yearly daisychain of peer grading.
Well, that's my $.02

 

[TheVoice]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

How about what a supervisor would wish to see in the new contract?
One: Proof that parttimers are considered an asset to the company. Every UPSer who has ten years in with the company should be given the opportunity to go full time.
Two: REVERSE 22.3 JOBS FOR DRIVERS IN THEIR TWILIGHT YEARS. I am in my 50s myself, so I am NOT suggesting that all older drivers should be put out to pasture. What I am saying isthat if a valuable employee has worn out his back to the point that the job is torturous, allow him to shift his job. Let him bump down and work a shift at the small sort or even the Customer Counter. Allow his other shift to possibly be a cover driver. This way we keep good drivers good. And the best advertisement for UPS is a professional, happy driver.
Three: The Supervisor full disclosure act. All p/t and friend/t supes should be graded by the number and severity of the greivances filed against them in the past year, as well as the number of injuries that have occurred under their watch in that same year.And this info should be available to the persons working under them or potentially working under them. When I think of all of the butt- kissing fools that just so happen to look like they could have walked off a Nazi recruiting poster- these idiots that threaten life and limb but suck up to their boss- ARRGHHH!!! You see the rating for every restaurant that you visit- why shouldn't you see the "rating" for your boss? Where are you more likely to die? Eating a Big Mac or working in an unsafe environment?
And why shouldn't your boss have to defend his record? This is a more nuts- and -bolts way of grading a supe than this yearly daisychain of peer grading.
Well, that's my $.02

I only wish more sups thought like you. I like where you are going with the part-timers thing as well...how about, top pay for part-timers that have 10 years. That might make it easyer to deal with the fact that there are less combo jobs being made.

food for thought.

 

[magoo57]

Re: If the contract is voted down, what are the top 3 things you would like changed o

Yeah, the only thing I saw good about the now-defunct APWA was that they might have remembered the parttimers.
By the way, there are more supes like myself that respect the workers whose safety and careers the same supes are entrusted. At the end of the day, MY BOSS is a union man. The Carpenters' Union. Local # 1 out of Nazareth.