IT Layoffs

[burnt-brownie]

Originally Posted by gimmeabreak
As was originally posted earlier,
"UPS IT department. Outsourced to IBM. IBM India workers training onsite in NJ. Work to be moved to India.the worst kept secret in UPS history.... "
...What will the news, TV and Wall Street say when they hear the sad news..of the fiasco in IS

 

[RetiredandLovingIT]

Have they heard about it?

 

[storm4]

They are using reviews from the end of 2008. Those reviews are almost 8 months old. Some of those "LE"s were manufactured. I know someone who had all MEs with the exception of one LE and got an overall LE rating. That LE was brought up to an ME bordering on EE after being assigned to a different project. It's a CYA and numbers game.

Unfortunately, yes, it was all manufactured and a dark cloud looms overhead. It is amazing what can be accomplished by fictitious paperwork creation and a goal to manipulate stock (greed!).

Aside: Do you think there will be success in breaking the unions? If UPS can outsource enough positions overseas, the power to protect those where the company was founded will be less and less. Perhaps the goal is not to get FedEx to unionize, but rather to eliminate the union at UPS, which will bring a level playing field. FedEx is but a stepping stone, as are the IS terminations, and many of the other happenings, past and future.

God Bless America, Land of the Brave, and God Bless those that UPS just set free to greener pastures. So many were among the most gifted. I certainly hope that they didn't let the creative paperwork scheme gnaw at their self esteem due to some of the criminal minds that put the scheme into play.

What doesn't make sense is that so many that were in the rooms did not fight for what they knew to be real. Were they so scared and intimidated by the scripted play? Unfortunately this is why the best are lost time and again. Wait for all the gossip that starts to brew about the LE's. Just remember that fictitious comments will return to you a minimum of 10-fold (as it is written). Strange how it's the few that are making it valid for the masses rather than a few that have spoiled it for the rest.

The show goes on and it promises to be most interesting! This play could have been written by Shakespeare, "Beware the Ides of March!"

 

[storm4]

There is a lot to repent for before a new... UPS can emerge.

 

[zzeee]

Have they heard about it?

We can help with that!
My friend works for Associated Press

 

[jimmythetech]

I heard on Friday the the cafeteria in Mahwah is being outsourced to a company in Mumbai. You have to call ahead to order your food and it is a limited, no beef, menu. All calls have to be made during Mumbai's local time of 9am to 5pm so place your orders for lunch as soon as you get to work. The international country code is +91, good luck and easy on the tamil.

 

[jimmythetech]

Re: IT Layoffs - Non productive employees

There are certainly many people that don't work well or produce / contribute in the IT community. Those people should have been dealt with aggressively previously and not left hanging around until the economy forced someone to act (actually manage their employees).
This is the main problem in IT, staffed with techno geeks (which are needed, I know) and not enough real managers that can or are allowed to make decisions.

That brings me to the reason for this post, there is very little productivity because you can not or are not allowed to make a decision. All decisions have to be made by Seymour Krelborn and that is one of the major problems with IT.

Since he took over from JS Mahwah has become ineffective, Seymour requires multiple meetings just to make a "non decision" and you are sent back to make yet another presentation of the same idea, process or solution but in another format.

So what happens is everything takes years to come to fruition because you can't move forward without the blessing of Seymour.

It doesn't matter if you have 5, 15 or 25 years of experience, more than Seymour has, he somehow is the world's most intelligent man and is the only one capable of knowing the right decision. This coming from a guy who can't sync his blackberry to his outlook, but he runs the place.

So the reductions will continue in Mahwah on Monday and the workplace will continue to be an uncomfortable place to work, especially knowing that there are no turkeys in December...

 

[air_upser]

Its not like a performance evaluation/QPR with 1 to 5's given out for every single element, and then all the numbers are added up to get your score.

At a peer review meeting you are ranked and rated by your management team. You are then classified (along with your peers) as EE, ME, LE. Very rarely will you be told what your rating is, since they like to keep that stuff confidential. However, if you are scoring 1's and 2's on your QPR, rest assured you are probably an LE.

Hope that makes sense.

It does. My management had always been very open on the ranking and rating system and I was even shown the spreasheets and such so I was just curious if you had seen something different. It's changed over the years with a new 14-point sytem implemented last year....but it's generally the same....contribution, value, technical skill, etc. I thought the LEs needed a PIP at some point, but if they were not told shame on their manager. I've always had excellent managers who wanted you to succeed....patted you on the back or kicked you in the butt at appropriate times.

As examples throughout this thread have shown, different managers have different expectations. Going from an ME to an LE in one year seems odd. If nothing changed besides your manager, he/she probably had diffferent expections than your previous ones. Note to all- get your new manager's expections right away! For example, you can be doing great work. Your previous manager didn't look over your shoulder or stand by the exit with a watch. You new manager...ummm, better be in your cube before 8 and after 5 regardless of your work.

Next week will be interesting.

 

[air_upser]

Re: IT Layoffs - Non productive employees

There are certainly many people that don't work well or produce / contribute in the IT community. Those people should have been dealt with aggressively previously and not left hanging around until the economy forced someone to act (actually manage their employees).
This is the main problem in IT, staffed with techno geeks (which are needed, I know) and not enough real managers that can or are allowed to make decisions.

That brings me to the reason for this post, there is very little productivity because you can not or are not allowed to make a decision. All decisions have to be made by Seymour Krelborn and that is one of the major problems with IT.

Since he took over from JS Mahwah has become ineffective, Seymour requires multiple meetings just to make a "non decision" and you are sent back to make yet another presentation of the same idea, process or solution but in another format.

So what happens is everything takes years to come to fruition because you can't move forward without the blessing of Seymour.

It doesn't matter if you have 5, 15 or 25 years of experience, more than Seymour has, he somehow is the world's most intelligent man and is the only one capable of knowing the right decision. This coming from a guy who can't sync his blackberry to his outlook, but he runs the place.

So the reductions will continue in Mahwah on Monday and the workplace will continue to be an uncomfortable place to work, especially knowing that there are no turkeys in December...

Great post, and absolutely true!

 

[Copious]

BODY { font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 12pt; color: 008000; background-position: top left; background-repeat: no-repeat; } First off hello to all, I have been a long time poster of forums outside of this and feel the need to now contribute to this forum.

As for the layoffs they SUCK no doubt about it. Fact is that every LARGE company breeds and hides LE's for years. Then when the time is short they are dismissed, this is a routine and has happened for years. If any of these so called LE's worked for a company with less then 25 people would have been dismissed years ago. Our current leadership did not invent this they are only following in the practices known to work for decades in every area of employment.

Most importantly it seems that it was 'excusable' to allow these people to go on for years which speaks volumes of our immediate management. They allowed this to proliferate and this is the direct result.

 

[NotJimCasey'sUPS]

My friend confirmed the one week for every year.
I am becoming very paranoid. 4 of the ones let go were past co-workers and generally friends of mine. All were not the mainstream UPS culture. A black female, a black male and 2 Russian Jewish friends all with lives outside of UPS. Pattern? I too am a person whose inner circle are all non-UPSers. Is it a matter of time for me?
Is it because they never attended Six Flags over Jesus? Locals know what I mean.

There's no pattern or rhyme or reason to the layoffs. You are way off base with your comment about not being the mainstream UPS culture or attacking the Christian background... 4 of my closest friends were let go and they were all American white males with Christian values... The only thing they all have in common is they have all had an LE in the past 8 months...most likely from a single manager that they didn't see eye to eye with...

 

[TechGrrl]

There's no pattern or rhyme or reason to the layoffs. You are way off base with your comment about not being the mainstream UPS culture or attacking the Christian background... 4 of my closest friends were let go and they were all American white males with Christian values... The only thing they all have in common is they have all had an LE in the past 8 months...most likely from a single manager that they didn't see eye to eye with...

Copper wasn't shooting at Christians, per se. He was alluding to the fact that one of the upper management guys making the decisions in Louisville is a devout attendee at a local mega-church known as "Six Flags over Jesus", which is very heavy with upper level UPSers, and local lore has it that the quickest way to get promoted (not just in IT, BTW) is to be there every Sunday rubbing shoulders with the Illuminati. Like most urban legends, this one does have a grain of truth in it. Networking is a key part of business success. At least you don't need a low golf handicap to schmooze with the Big Boys at church, and you might get some good out of the sermons, too.

To clarify another matter, the whole LE, ME, EE, O thing comes into play once a year, at pay raise time. When you get your salary review in March, the % increase is tied to this rating. (There is also a U, for unsatisfactory, but anyone deserving of that rating is generally gone before March) So when your boss sits down and explains your salary increase (or lack of one) to you, they should be mentioning this rating explicitly, because it is a key component of what your raise is.

Since no raises were given this year, I am not sure what happened with these reviews.

There is no doubt that some folks who got caught in this net were those whose only crime was doing "Less than expected" WRT butt-kissing. Some managers love having their butt cheeks gently lip-caressed, who wouldn't recognize a genuine contribution to software excellence if it walked up and punched them in the nose. These are generally poor managers, who we can only hope get their own opportunity to become available to the marketplace.

 

[07960]

... Fact is that every LARGE company breeds and hides LE's for years. Then when the time is short they are dismissed, this is a routine and has happened for years. If any of these so called LE's worked for a company with less then 25 people would have been dismissed years ago. Our current leadership did not invent this they are only following in the practices known to work for decades in every area of employment.

Most importantly it seems that it was 'excusable' to allow these people to go on for years which speaks volumes of our immediate management. They allowed this to proliferate and this is the direct result.

If there weren't so many truly dedicated and good producers set up to take the fall so that slackers could keep their jobs, your comments would make sense. Unfortunately there are witnesses to the crimes committed when much of the fictitious paperwork was created and there will come a time when the sleezebags that set up some of these hard working employees will get their just rewards.

What went down was not as clean cut as you make it out to be and many will push back. Signing for a termination package is not a blockade to law suits, but only a deterrent. Any document signed under duress is not a legal document and will not hold up in a court of law.

Documentation fictitiously created after plans were communicated to PMs by Leads and PLs in an attempt to save their own throats will not hold water when there are years of glowing reports and commendations praising them for their hard work and major contributions just prior to the need for your scapegoats.

It really is a shame that so many of the real LEs are with us when we lost so many good producers. Hopefully phase 2 will rid us of the leads and PLs that slandered and destroyed the careers of some very fine people. If it were just a few, we could say it happens, but when so many were set up to fail after years of hard work and performance that was at the top of their team, there is no excuse.

Many are angry and this is going to cost us.

 

[jehardrock]

In reading many of these posts related to performance rankings and leadership everyone needs to understand that UPS, at least on the IT side, seems to have adopted the Jack Welch (GE) method of performance ratings. We are at a point where a certain percentage of our folks are required to be rated at LE even if it is not warranted. If you make the case that you don't have any "Less than Expected" performers, you are then required to indicate the folks who are "Least Effective" which is nothing more than a twisting of words to get the LE % required.

Many in Sr. Management are running scared and doing as they are told for fear of losing their job and/or being perceived as not following the company line. You can't have an opinion anymore unless it is in agreement with those above you. Project Management is great as long as you reflect a plan with the delivery date that Management wants to see instead of the reality of what it really takes to deliver. This is a sad state of affairs now and as we look into the future. We are now in a mode where it's all about every person for themselves and the do-ers get dumped on and then get blamed for trying to make things happen for the good of UPS. I have never seen such a lack of leadership as exists today.

 

[killer300]

If you get laidoff/fired do you lose your RSU's????

 

[Catatonic]

If you get laidoff/fired do you lose your RSU's????

See post 102

 

[killer300]

Thanks Hoaxter, how about any unused vacation??

 

[Catatonic]

Thanks Hoaxter, how about any unused vacation??

Vac days are paid as of the day of termination ... same for discretionary days.

 

[brownhornet07]

If there weren't so many truly dedicated and good producers set up to take the fall so that slackers could keep their jobs, your comments would make sense. Unfortunately there are witnesses to the crimes committed when much of the fictitious paperwork was created and there will come a time when the sleezebags that set up some of these hard working employees will get their just rewards.

What went down was not as clean cut as you make it out to be and many will push back. Signing for a termination package is not a blockade to law suits, but only a deterrent. Any document signed under duress is not a legal document and will not hold up in a court of law.

Documentation fictitiously created after plans were communicated to PMs by Leads and PLs in an attempt to save their own throats will not hold water when there are years of glowing reports and commendations praising them for their hard work and major contributions just prior to the need for your scapegoats.

It really is a shame that so many of the real LEs are with us when we lost so many good producers. Hopefully phase 2 will rid us of the leads and PLs that slandered and destroyed the careers of some very fine people. If it were just a few, we could say it happens, but when so many were set up to fail after years of hard work and performance that was at the top of their team, there is no excuse.

Many are angry and this is going to cost us.

this all started 3 years ago...with the experiment over in Ramsey....as a result of those changes...certain groups are probably safer now then they were....they proved that they could cut costs and get rid of people over in Ramsey, while it laid under the radar.....finally, the rest of IT caught up to the "groundbreaking progress" Ramsey made...

as long as the garbage PLs and Leads play nice with current management, and feed into the lie that "everything is great", they will continue to be safe and have jobs...

 

[killer300]

I would hope that having XXX years of good evaluations leading up to one month of being designated an LE in order to get unceremoniously tossed out, would stand up in a court of law.



Yes I was thinking exactly the same thing. How can a person have good QPR scores, you think you're doing well and then all the sudden oh you're an LE.

Even with that being said can't an employer still let anyone go, especailly in todays environment...?