Late air

By The Book

Well-Known Member
Question: Are progressive warning letters in regards to late air ultimately a fireable offense? I just can't believe they could fire you on what is a performance based mistake. It's not dishonesty or stealing. I'm under the understanding that 3 warning letters lead to dismissal, could this be the case just because of late air? Would it have to be within a certain time frame (a year)? And then resets over time?

On not in that boat, just curious.
I don't think having late air is a performance based mistake. If repeated within a certain time frame, yes it could lead to discharge. Remember a warning letter is used to correct behavior. Learn from the first one and you should be good. Few and far between if you follow me. I believe there is a training out on delivering air, and dishonesty. If it's late, it's late kind of thing. Don't cover it up.
 

JL 0513

Well-Known Member
I don't think having late air is a performance based mistake. If repeated within a certain time frame, yes it could lead to discharge. Remember a warning letter is used to correct behavior. Learn from the first one and you should be good. Few and far between if you follow me. I believe there is a training out on delivering air, and dishonesty. If it's late, it's late kind of thing. Don't cover it up.

I had 1 late air once and got a warning letter. Won't take chances anymore. But it's bound to happen someday again due to something out of my control. I assume you could get one with a warning every 5 years and be fine?

Are there guidelines that are defined on progressive discipline in terms of time?
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
I had 1 late air once and got a warning letter. Won't take chances anymore. But it's bound to happen someday again due to something out of my control. I assume you could get one with a warning every 5 years and be fine?

Are there guidelines that are defined on progressive discipline in terms of time?
9 months
 

Brownslave688

You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
If you knew you'd have some late why didn't you at least hit the two with 9 packages first? At least maybe you wouldn't have had so many late? We were always told if you were going to have late DON'T let it be a bulk stop of air.
lol we had a newb do this. Thought it was better to have 1 late air stop than 4. Problem was that 1 had 75 air packages. SMH
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
The progression for discipline is in the contract:

Meeting with mangement and shop steward.

Warning Letter.

1 Day suspension.

3 day.

5 day.

Termination.

If they skip that first step, grieve it; I'd think it would be overturned. OTOH, not getting commits off in time sounds like it would fall into the catchall bucket of, "Failure to follow methods and procedures", which from what I've seen, can be a myriad of things. So, if they disciplined you for "failing to follow methods..." before because you cut across someone's lawn, if they put your late air discipline under the same catergory, they can continue to go through the progression, even though the actual infractions were nothing alike.
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
lol we had a newb do this. Thought it was better to have 1 late air stop than 4. Problem was that 1 had 75 air packages. SMH

We had a kid who sat at the gas station for 50 minutes waiting for someone to bring him a gas card. The gas station in question is about a mile from the building but rather than drive there and get a card or simply fill up the next day he chose to sit there for nearly an hour.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
"Failure to follow methods and procedures", which from what I've seen, can be a myriad of things. So, if they disciplined you for "failing to follow methods..." before because you cut across someone's lawn, if they put your late air discipline under the same catergory, they can continue to go through the progression, even though the actual infractions were nothing alike.
If this were the case, they could fire anybody at will.
There are supposedly 340 methods and procedures and the chances of anybody following them across the board,without a "failure" on any given day, would be slim to none.
The company has tried to lump together cases with failure to follow, under multiple scenarios, and was easily debunked at the panel.
We simply argued that progressive discipline was designed to correct behaviors and that it was working, as the employee in question had not had reoccurrences of past documented shortcomings.
It was then easy to validate that this employee was being over supervised and that company was just "piling on".
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
The progression for discipline is in the contract:

Meeting with mangement and shop steward.

Warning Letter.

1 Day suspension.

3 day.

5 day.

Termination.

Where is this "in the contract"?
Is this part of your regional or local supplement?

I'm not seeing it in mine.
 

'Lord Brown's bidding'

Well-Known Member
They can only fire you "at will" if they continually catch you not following the methods, which means they are watching for you to do so. All of the managers and supervisors I have worked with are not inclined to do so; in centers with 60-70 drivers, 50 trips on a light day, they have too much other stuff to worry about. Stay off of their radar, and you eventually recede to the background.

It's why I worry about the "us vs them" mentality promoted by some in here. Maybe it is just my building, but the upper levels of management don't key in on specific centers and look to take heads as much as you guys seem to indicate goes on in your buildings. What that means is, yeah, no one will be perfect in doing the methods everyday, but they aren't that nitpicky, unless you are a hothead who loves to go to battle with management over every little grievance of yours, making them WANT to get rid of you. Even then, it takes a lot to get then to actually get in a car and start following you around to visually observe you "not folding in a mirror", or "not holding a handrail while exiting a vehicle". Usually by that point, you've gotten on their nerves some other way.

I've been disciplined via the progression I've described above, and have been told it by both management and the union. I've seen where some on this board have said, "No one is GIVEN a one-day suspension; discipline is REDUCED to that", and yet I have been given several one days off the bat, most of which are reduced to letters. At the moment I don't have my contract book in front of me, but I believe I've seen more than once the progression in there, and I am mystified when I read why some guys get suspended or terminated for first time things.
 

fres431

Well-Known Member
Using phone on clock could be considered stealing company time, I've been to local panel for it. I solved that problem by not making or taking any ups business phone calls even if directed to by diad message I simple say I'll do the best I can to find a phone.
 
They can only fire you "at will" if they continually catch you not following the methods, which means they are watching for you to do so. All of the managers and supervisors I have worked with are not inclined to do so; in centers with 60-70 drivers, 50 trips on a light day, they have too much other stuff to worry about. Stay off of their radar, and you eventually recede to the background.

It's why I worry about the "us vs them" mentality promoted by some in here. Maybe it is just my building, but the upper levels of management don't key in on specific centers and look to take heads as much as you guys seem to indicate goes on in your buildings. What that means is, yeah, no one will be perfect in doing the methods everyday, but they aren't that nitpicky, unless you are a hothead who loves to go to battle with management over every little grievance of yours, making them WANT to get rid of you. Even then, it takes a lot to get then to actually get in a car and start following you around to visually observe you "not folding in a mirror", or "not holding a handrail while exiting a vehicle". Usually by that point, you've gotten on their nerves some other way.

I've been disciplined via the progression I've described above, and have been told it by both management and the union. I've seen where some on this board have said, "No one is GIVEN a one-day suspension; discipline is REDUCED to that", and yet I have been given several one days off the bat, most of which are reduced to letters. At the moment I don't have my contract book in front of me, but I believe I've seen more than once the progression in there, and I am mystified when I read why some guys get suspended or terminated for first time things.
I am not a steward not do I want to be. Butbi have been asked by a few if my coworkers to represent them when the steward was off.

They love to play that game,lets drag someone in the office without fair representation.

I always start out by saying if any disciplinary action is going to be taken ,I just use the word weingarten.

That always blows them away...lol
 

UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)

Well-Known Member
Using phone on clock could be considered stealing company time, I've been to local panel for it. I solved that problem by not making or taking any ups business phone calls even if directed to by diad message I simple say I'll do the best I can to find a phone.

It's one thing to make a brief phone call here or there throughout the day.

It's quite another to spend all day on the phone.
 
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