Management Retirement at 59
- Thread starter Yankfan
- Start date
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
How's this.. We are a partnership at UPS. We would never do anything to harm our fellow partners for the sake of Wall St.
How did I do?
How did I do?
brownclown21
New Member
Let me see if I can make you feel a little better. Before I start, let me share some background information. I was hired several years ago into a financial related management position. Let me make it clear this is a low level position and I certainly do not have access to “inside” information. These are my opinions and are based solely on anecdotal information. So here are my reasons why the early retirement age for the Defined Benefit Pension Plan will not be raised:
The company wants you to leave. You can be replaced with a new management person who will be paid a fraction of what you are currently making. Increasing the retirement age would only serve to keep you on the payroll longer…. something the company does not want.
The Defined Benefit Pension Plan for Non-Management employees was closed (in 2007 I believe) to new employees. As such, plan liabilities will decrease over time as the number of plan participants goes down. My point here is that the plan will eventually disappear even if the company does nothing.
Interest rates are rising, which means the discount rate used to value plan liabilities is going up. As the discount rate goes up, the cash contributions required of the company go down. Again, things are going to get better even if the company does nothing.
In summary, I just don’t see a compelling reason for the company to increase the retirement age. The only way I see the retirement age going up is if the company suddenly finds it difficult to hire new talent. Then it might make sense to increase the retirement age. Otherwise, I just don’t see it happening.
Great analysis. In addition, add to it that each year, retirees in the UPS retiree health plan, "fall off" as they move to Medicare and get reduced benefits for the purchase of Medicare supplement and plan D drug plan coverage. The new retirees have less years of service at the full rate (years before 1992) and so they get less Defined Dollar Benefit credits. Much like the pension plan, the liabilities under the retiree health plan will reduce over time.
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
Brownclown... I hope you are right, however, I don't think you are.
As other posters have mentioned, the amount listed in the total rewards portfolio is very low as compared to what the true future liabilities are. Often many retirement plans backload the pension obligations to the later years of an employee's work years. I have 25 years in and when I last looked I had something like 88K put away. If they extend the retirement then they can take longer to pay my pension obligation and technically it will need to be less since I'll have less years in retirement, since I'll have to work an additional 4 years.
Also, currently, there are a lot of old timers retiring and there are still a lot of 45-55 year old's working. Not a lot of people in the 35-45 year old range at UPS. Many people under 35, but many of these are people who stay for a handful of years, then leave. UPS still needs experienced people and this is a way of getting them to stay for a bit longer.
Again, I hope you are right, I'd like to be able to leave at 55 and work elsewhere.
frateshkr
Active Member
Neither.......assuming a generic existance of both being simply defined as your comment then both are equal in the attitude of non-altruistic symptoms they present. The better question would be which does the most damage to society? The sponges being say x -1, or the multinational greedy pirates being say 2bx-2b-1 ? The common is still a drain on society but the impact of the corporation would seemingly mitigate the negative effect by the positive 2b it involves. ( jobs and tax payments [maybe] and community service ) . As opposed to the poor soul under the bridge who has no positive influence on anyone. Just don't blame him for not being a corporation.
beentheredonethat
Well-Known Member
The people that sponge off society is worse.
First off, before I start my reasoning, I am not talking about people who CAN NOT help themselves. The society has an obligation to help the less fortunate. I am talking about people who are able to work but decide to go on welfare instead. The women who get pregnant to collect more benefits, those same women who have a 2nd, 3rd, 4th child to get more benefits. The men who impregnate women and don't take responsibility for their children. The second and third generation of families who stay on welfare.
Also, corporations themselves who knowingly pollute the water and air. The corporations who hide data that lets dangerous drugs be given to people. Corporations that trade lives for profit are all examples of corporations that should be condemned. I am not talking about these types of corporations.
Corporations can be non profit, or for profit. For the sake of this argument, I'll only talk about for profit, since I would assume, most people would agree non profits are there to benefit society as a whole, (hospitals, schools, food shelters etc).
Now for my argument, for profit corporations are in existence to produce goods\service to make money for the shareowner(s). If successful, the company employs more and more employees. These employees earn income and pay taxes. The corporation itself pays taxes (employer half of Social security and medicare), unemployment taxes, federal and state, and local taxes.
Even where reports show companies paid no taxes, they do pay local property tax to help the community, they pay the social security, medicare and unemployment taxes. Some argue, that some corporations manipulate the tax code to reduce their "Fair share". I agree some do, (maybe many do). However, I put that blame squarely on the lawmakers. They have the power to tax and write laws that aren't easy to manipulate. It is our congressman, senators and president who is at fault for writing laws that allow this. Also, we as a people have to realize, it's a global economy, if a company can move overseas and pay a lower tax, they will. We need to understand this and write tax laws that make it attractive to pay taxes to the U.S.
So in short, a company does pay taxes, even if it escapes federal taxes. The biggest thing companies do is provide that service or goods that allow people to be employed and those employees themselves pay taxes to the government. The more taxes that are paid, the better ability the govt has to help those who truly need help.
As for people who can work, but do not. All they are is a drain on society. They take, but never give. What's worse, by them taking money, it can prevent those who truly need it from getting the help they need and deserve.
Thanks for the input. I'm glad someone has some decent reasons against a rise in the retirement age or a pension buyout. I was beginning to think that there weren't any. Unfortunately, I think that your last thought may end up being the determining factor because we certainly aren't attracting quality talent now and with the constant erosion of management compensation and benefits I don't see any catalyst to reverse that.
xcessuv
Benhearb4
When you think about, they are both trying to accomplish the same thing, erode the middle-class (which in reality does no longer exist)....
I see some "safeguards" built in to mitigate your logic...First with the salary cap - how many people are going to get raises between 55 and 59?...second I heard that although the retirement age was being moved to 59 the company was no longer contributing to an employees fund after 55 and under the new plan they would get the "enhanced" match for the last 4 years - so under that logic the last 4 years do not cost additional long term liability...although you are still correct that they are higher paid years compared to the alternative.
BURMDPsupe
Well-Known Member
Not to mention the "selected" assignments to on-road, preload, etc. that some of the 50+ will be "offered" to keep themselves employed. I've witnessed a few of those in my time.
M-
In a previous post on this board it was said that the 59 retirement enhancement wouldn't happen until the contract was ratified so if there was some kind of service interuption, the company wouldn't be relying upon "freshly screwed-over" management folks. The longer this drags out, the more I'm inclined to believe that. Any other points of view out there?
SignificantOwner
A Package Center Manager
It will demonstrate a real lack of class at the top if these rumors of retirement plan changes turn out to be true. They can blame all the pay and benefit cuts on market forces or whatever they want, but to let the management "team" find out about this major of a change via rumor would truly show how little they respect us.
Sig, In my opinion they have already demonstrated they have no respect for mgmt and have no class based on the enhancements we recently were talking about on here. You might as well use the Policy book pages to start your camp fires. All the ones we got throughout our careers.
Note one more enhancement I heard of, my Admin that I had working for me before I left ( 52 years old, 25 + years) was told to contact H/R by an email because her job was being impacted....wtf. Nice way to say we do not need you....She is very good, knowledgeable and a true asset to the operation and company. It is a shame and disgrace!
Note one more enhancement I heard of, my Admin that I had working for me before I left ( 52 years old, 25 + years) was told to contact H/R by an email because her job was being impacted....wtf. Nice way to say we do not need you....She is very good, knowledgeable and a true asset to the operation and company. It is a shame and disgrace!
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Which company do you work for?
Not UPS...or he or she wouldnt ask that question! They screw over management more than the hourly employees. Almost feel sorry for my SUP......not...lol
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I understand.
I almost feel sorry for friend/T Drivers ... part-timers are another story!
I do feel sorry for P/Timers.
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