Mitt's really bad day

Buddybrown

Well-Known Member
caharrell5, You must live in some sort of alternate reality, or you have lost all memory of how bad things were in 2008. BTW, The PPACA reduces the deficit. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.
----- Very simple...Bush had the economy humming and this was soon after the biggest attack on American soil, 911.----It was all ok and then something magical occurred (your alternate reality) the dems took over congress and the whole thing went into the crapper!!---Bush wasn't great but Obama is terrible---By the way Reagan turned around what many consider a worse economy than what Obama had to deal with and not only has he not improved it at all---HE HAS MADE IT WORSE!!!!
 

804brown

Well-Known Member
----- Very simple...Bush had the economy humming and this was soon after the biggest attack on American soil, 911.----It was all ok and then something magical occurred (your alternate reality) the dems took over congress and the whole thing went into the crapper!!---Bush wasn't great but Obama is terrible---By the way Reagan turned around what many consider a worse economy than what Obama had to deal with and not only has he not improved it at all---HE HAS MADE IT WORSE!!!!

What?? Bush had the economy "humming"?? We were in recession as of March 2001 that is 6 months BEFORE 911!! Those unfunded tax cuts did nothing for the middle class. The middle class made ends meet BY BORROWING ON THEIR HOMES!! Why do you blame the dems ?? They did not pass unfunded tax cuts or unfunded wars or the medicare part D without a revunue stream. Bush and the repubs did. 7 years of running up the debt and letting wall st run wild and securitizing home loans pushed the world economy "into the crapper". Your boy the "budget guru" went along with all that spending and voodoo economics (now he's like: "Im shocked, shocked there is spending going on here!!")
As for reagan, not sure how he actually turned anything around. He too ran up the national debt. He arrived in washington with a $700 billion national debt and when bush sr left it was $4 TRILLION!! Clinton fixed the budget and created surpluses until Bush jr ruined that hard work.

As for obama "making it worse" how is that?? When he took over we were losing about 800,000 jobs a month , economy was contracting 4%!! Now we are creating about 150k a month in jobs, economy is slowly growing at around 1.5 to 2 % . We have close to a universal health care system in place and reformed wall st and the financial sector. As for the debt, the only new spending was the $800 billion stimulus. The deficit grows from lack of revenue from weak economy and continuing bush tax cuts and wars.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
As for being disinterested or of no particular party, I can agree and appreciate that. Other than to do everything I can to tear them down, show their contradictions and their hypocrisy, I have no emotional, vested interest in either traditional political party. They are just a target to throw their own :censored2: back at. The day they no longer exist any more IMO would be a good day for this country. I vote for neither nor do I support any 3rd party effort although I would encourage all to boycott all means of voting or at the least, if one most vote, to find a 3d party or independent option. The country is now where we are not in spite of but rather because of the narrow choices the American voter thinks he/she has to make in regards to the 2 party state. IMO, either party is just the 2 wings of the same bird of prey. Only the fool falls for the false condition of picking either Satan or Lucifer.

Now that said, let's consider the several issues you listed above. You seem to suggest that unemployment if not rising has made no improvement under Obama and this is factually not true. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that unemployment since Obama took office has dropped about 2% points. If you want to argue that the BLS is not reporting accurate numbers, you can refer too ShadowStats to argue that point. According to their seasonally adjusted SGS unemployment data, unemployment has continued to actually rise under Obama but fair warning here, to use this measure for Obama also means the measure holds true for Bush under his watch with a true unemployment picture was 15% and under Clinton not much better. This also opens up the can of worms that the Federal gov't has been lying to the American public and thus we have to now look at the many other economic lies told to us by both parties. Hell of a trick bag ain't it?

Food stamps and households using them are a growing issue but the problem is treating food stamps as a root cause rather than a symptom of an underlying issue. The real question is what caused the food stamp explosion in the fist place? As to the food stamp program itself, in Jan. of this year Romney was on Meet the Press in which he claimed a lot of so-called welfare spending goes toward administrative and overhead costs. I happen to agree on some level with this and it should be openly and transparently discussed.

Now when you have multiple layers of administration at the local, state and federal levels, sure, there is going to be an extracted cost to this process and it's either the taxpayer or the end user who foots the cost of this bill. The managerial state's not going too as this would blow a hole into this workfare scheme. Opps, did I just blow a hole in the false employment report (and a reason for welfare program growth and not program cuts) we've been getting from both republican and democrat administrations for years? And you won't get it regardless when wins in just over a month either.

More important is the fact that welfare as we know it goes far beyond the so-called individual free loader who's demonized for milking the system. Those doing the demonizing often turn out to be the court jesters of the real hidden welfare moochies who milk enormous sums of money from the US tax payer in the actual biggest wealth re-distribution of all. If you are going to complain about the welfare system as rightly should be, just make damn sure you've considered the entire picture and all those who benefit from it rather than falsely treating the end user as a human shield for the bigger benefactors.

As to the cost of energy, food prices and such, there are many market interventions by organized states that effect these prices and mostly to the benefits of those who produce and distribute these goods. Also the fact that these markets in many respects have been monopolized thanks to regulatory capture and embedded industry operatives in the gov't itself, see here for just a handful of examples. But beyond all of that is the effects of Federal Reserve monetary policy itself. Regardless of all the spin, the Federal Reserve is a private created monopoly with a quasi-public control board created for public consumption but it's still at it's heart a privately held corporate entity and the Federal Open Market Committee sets all United States monetary policy beyond the scope and reach of the President or even the Congress. The claim of the Fed having a private component to it's existence use to be the domain of Conspiracy theorist and tin foil hats but now it's all but universally admitted so the adage of Conspiracy theory becoming conspiracy fact holds true.

As to the inflation in pricing of goods and services, let's consider the latest inflation report released by the BLS on Sept. 14th for the most current month of Aug/2012.

So a major push factor of inflation is oil and in regards to food, it's oil dependent either in fertilizers which are petro based, pesticides or herbicides again petro based and finally the nail in the coffin is most people eat food that's transported over 1000's of miles while the local farms are long gone, many of them now sitting idle with empty houses from real estate bubble that's now been foreclosed on.

If you want to call foul on the current administration of hiding the true inflation rate, we can again do that referring to ShadowStats but you open the door to the charge of previous administrations having lied to the American people. And yes they did. Odder still is that ShadowStats shows the current rate of inflation under Obama is better than most of Bush's 2 terms so wanna go down that road? The brutal truth is that the only way the US can pay off it's debt is for inflation to really kick us in the teeth. At the same time, inflation also solves the budget deficit problem as wages begin to reflect inflation's effects and taxpayers start moving up in tax brackets otherwise known as the Statist's greatest savior known as bracket creep. It's why both parties love the greatest hidden tax increase of them all. Inflation.

But the problem is the good ole' citizens of the US of A who proved to be the monkey wrench in the whole scheme. You see the American public didn't play along re-inflating the false economic bubble because instead they de-scaled by paying down debt and worse even faster than planned. Now the real tragedy for Team Obama, as that piece is nearly 2 years old, the article boasts things would get good again when Americans would save enough and then start spending again. To American's credit, that trend of saving and retiring debt continues and this is the unseen or unspoken reason as to why the economy has stabilized but yet has not re-inflated the bubble the banker state desperately wants. Now the GOP hope is their latest sock puppet cheerleader can trick you into the Malls of America and under the fakery of monetary debt trickery make you think they fixed the economy only to realize or your kids will that the whole thing was false from the get go.

Obama doesn't get the credit or the blame, the average folk of America get it because they've started to wise up but can they continue to be smart of will they fall prey again to the slick talking propagandist who'll tell them to be good Americans and go shopping?

Maybe instead of blaming the sock puppet Obama who doesn't have enough power to order himself out of a paper sack unless he's given permission, you should take a hard look at the lying rascals you've been listening too in the hopes you select their sock puppet who will have equal power when is come to paper sacks.

And this proves once again why the OWS and Tea Party have it correct.
 
M

MenInBrown

Guest
What?? Bush had the economy "humming"?? We were in recession as of March 2001 that is 6 months BEFORE 911!! Those unfunded tax cuts did nothing for the middle class. The middle class made ends meet BY BORROWING ON THEIR HOMES!! Why do you blame the dems ?? They did not pass unfunded tax cuts or unfunded wars or the medicare part D without a revunue stream. Bush and the repubs did. 7 years of running up the debt and letting wall st run wild and securitizing home loans pushed the world economy "into the crapper". Your boy the "budget guru" went along with all that spending and voodoo economics (now he's like: "Im shocked, shocked there is spending going on here!!")
As for reagan, not sure how he actually turned anything around. He too ran up the national debt. He arrived in washington with a $700 billion national debt and when bush sr left it was $4 TRILLION!! Clinton fixed the budget and created surpluses until Bush jr ruined that hard work.

As for obama "making it worse" how is that?? When he took over we were losing about 800,000 jobs a month , economy was contracting 4%!! Now we are creating about 150k a month in jobs, economy is slowly growing at around 1.5 to 2 % . We have close to a universal health care system in place and reformed wall st and the financial sector. As for the debt, the only new spending was the $800 billion stimulus. The deficit grows from lack of revenue from weak economy and continuing bush tax cuts and wars.

Finally someone finally puts blame on Clinton for starting the housing bubble...Thank You!
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Your world is so crazy.

Not really. Glass Steagall repeal in some respects was the seedbed from which the housing bubble would blossom. When the Wall Street tech bubble popped, the wheels began to turn to re-inflate to keep the false economy going. Bush was never smart enough to create something like this but he did make a good fall guy.

Like any good company or investment concern worth their weight, they operate 5 to 10 years out in thinking.
 

roadrunner2012

Four hours in the mod queue for a news link
Troll
wkmac,

This is a bit disingenuous, but you know that. To call Bush not smart enough is a disservice. He knew what he was doing, and that is one of the reasons he's been in his bunker for four years.

To think that a Wall Street bubble ever popped is also naive. They are the only people that have prospered in the last decade, and that is by design. I don't recall banks losing a penny on the housing bubble.

On the other hand, our new poster, caharrel5, is delusional. You are only misdirected ;)
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
wkmac,

This is a bit disingenuous, but you know that. To call Bush not smart enough is a disservice. He knew what he was doing, and that is one of the reasons he's been in his bunker for four years.

To think that a Wall Street bubble ever popped is also naive. They are the only people that have prospered in the last decade, and that is by design. I don't recall banks losing a penny on the housing bubble.

On the other hand, our new poster, caharrel5, is delusional. You are only misdirected ;)

I stand by completely what I said. Bush is/was/and never will be smart enough.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
I stand by completely what I said. Bush is/was/and never will be smart enough.

That is such an obviously correct statement and the other thing that is just as obvious is that there is no one who ever lived that was smart enough either.
You are a sneaky guy wkmac.
 
M

MenInBrown

Guest
wkmac,

This is a bit disingenuous, but you know that. To call Bush not smart enough is a disservice. He knew what he was doing, and that is one of the reasons he's been in his bunker for four years.

To think that a Wall Street bubble ever popped is also naive. They are the only people that have prospered in the last decade, and that is by design. I don't recall banks losing a penny on the housing bubble.

On the other hand, our new poster, caharrel5, is delusional. You are only misdirected ;)

Well let me direct you somewhere "ROOK"...go back to message #260 to get a lesson on how the housing bubble started. Lets see, you don't recall banks losing a penny on the housing bubble, interesting...Over 300 hundred banks went bankrupt from the housing bubble. Nice try "ROOK", it's good to add a few facts once in a while to support calling someone delusional. ;) you should change your name to coyote
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
Well let me direct you somewhere "ROOK"...go back to message #260 to get a lesson on how the housing bubble started. Lets see, you don't recall banks losing a penny on the housing bubble, interesting...Over 300 hundred banks went bankrupt from the housing bubble. Nice try "ROOK", it's good to add a few facts once in a while to support calling someone delusional. ;) you should change your name to coyote

Did you read the book? It traces to Clinton etc.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Did you read the book? It traces to Clinton etc.

Clinton's point man on economics was one Larry Summers who made sure the financial side was in place to bubble the further commoditizing of real estate and home ownership. SourceWatch under Larry Summers makes the following point in regards to Glass Steagall repeal and it's effect of the 2008' Housing Bubble blowup:

Support for Repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act

When he was Treasury Secretary, Larry Summers advocated repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act[SUP][6][/SUP], which was a target of the financial industry. In their report - “Sold Out: How Wall Street and Washington Betrayed America” - Robert Weissman and Harry Rosenfeld identified the repeal of this legislation as one of the main causes of the 2008 financial crisis. According to Weissman and Rosenfeld, “The Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 formally repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 (also known as the Banking Act of 1933) and related laws, which prohibited commercial banks from offering investment banking and insurance services…The 1999 repeal of Glass-Steagall helped create the conditions in which banks invested monies from checking and savings accounts into creative financial instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps, investment gambles that rocked the financial markets in 2008.”

SourceWatch is a website created and run by Center for Media and Democracy

And Glass Steagall repeal was no Free Market scheme and thus why even Ron Paul voted against it's repeal. He saw what it was from the get go.

Ron Paul explains why he voted against repeal of Glass-Steagall - YouTube

Just like Bush and Company were pure 1%ers, so too was Clinton and cronies as is Obama and his den of thieves or being muslim, maybe it's Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves!
 
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