Mr. Hoffa. Get Off Your Ass Right Now

[MAKAVELI]

The time to act is now Mr. Hoffa. You have a highly motivated majority of FedEx Express employees who have seen the dark side of Frederick W. Smith. We call your offices, and we get nothing but the runaround. Your reps won't talk to us and they won't provide literature we can use to inform and rally the uninformed.

You say you want to grow the Teamsters in a time when belonging to a union has become a "crime" and membership has dropped to the lowest levels since 1932. Perhaps you need to dust-off your history book and see that 1932 was the time when oppressed workers took the power back from their corporate plantation masters. Maybe you need to remember your Dad, and that he didn't take crap from anyone, especially a preppy rich Southern brat who was born with a golden spoon in his mouth and has a nasty penchant for using his money to get his way.

Fred S is the antithesis of what America should be. He buys and sells politicians like apples at the grocery store, and then has them do his bidding while honest, hard-working FedEx employees have their careers stripped-away so he can make even more money. We've lost our pension and profit-sharing and watched our healthcare costs shoot through the ceiling just because Mr. Smith wines and dines the right people aboard his corporate jets. He is killing the middle-class, which was largely created through the unions. You should probably know that.

If you want a strong IBT, now is the time to actually do something about it. If you and the IBT continue to stand-by and do nothing, eventually Smith is going to take down UPS. He already has his sites on the Post Office, and he's got the GOP working for him in Congress to bring them down too.

Soon, he'll be too powerful to fight. That means doing something now instead of just talking about it.

All I am going to say is 17 guys come forward and say we must unionize, but a couple of years ago you guys singing a different tune. Saying no union, we like the bonus instead. Again just saying.........

All I'm going to say is it is easy for someone on the sidelines to play Monday Morning Quarterback. But you are right.

 

[bbsam]

You really are one very angry and confused individual.

 

[MAKAVELI]

You really are one very angry and confused individual.

Aren't we all? I mean just take a look at all your anti union far right business comments and claim you are a democrat. Then you say you have been advocating for us to organize all along? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[packageguy]

All I'm going to say is it is easy for someone on the sidelines to play Monday Morning Quarterback. But you are right.

I think you should sign a petition with many name as possible, show them you are serious about this matter, I am sure they will do the right thing and organize you guys...

 

[MAKAVELI]

All I'm going to say is it is easy for someone on the sidelines to play Monday Morning Quarterback. But you are right.

I think you should sign a petition with many name as possible, show them you are serious about this matter, I am sure they will do the right thing and organize you guys...

Thanks for that organizing insight. It's nice to know you care.

 

[packageguy]

Thanks for that organizing insight. It's nice to know you care.

Not being sarcastic, But sometimes if you want to get things done you have to organize yourselfs first, Come together as a group... I would love it if you guys organized.. I use to eat lunch with the fdx guy, we both did a mall.... Everyday we would meet at food court...

 

[MAKAVELI]

Thanks for that organizing insight. It's nice to know you care.

Not being sarcastic, But sometimes if you want to get things done you have to organize yourselfs first, Come together as a group... I would love it if you guys organized.. I use to eat lunch with the fdx guy, we both did a mall.... Everyday we would meet at food court...

I agree but it will definitely be an uphill battle. Fred is about as anti union as they come and has no problem spending the cash to keep them out. We can't get them in at a local level. This is why we need teamsters resources.

 

[bbsam]

Aren't we all? I mean just take a look at all your anti union far right business comments and claim you are a democrat. Then you say you have been advocating for us to organize all along? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

the closest thing I have ever said to being anti union is that Express people should stop whining about the RLA and Fred's union busting tactics and just do it. The RLA and Fred's opposition are facts of life. They have been since this subject came up, they are today, and they will be tomorrow. How is that anti union?

 

[STFXG]

Aren't we all? I mean just take a look at all your anti union far right business comments and claim you are a democrat. Then you say you have been advocating for us to organize all along? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

the closest thing I have ever said to being anti union is that Express people should stop whining about the RLA and Fred's union busting tactics and just do it. The RLA and Fred's opposition are facts of life. They have been since this subject came up, they are today, and they will be tomorrow. How is that anti union?

Because you work for ground you idiot! Don't you understand!?

 

[MAKAVELI]

Aren't we all? I mean just take a look at all your anti union far right business comments and claim you are a democrat. Then you say you have been advocating for us to organize all along? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

the closest thing I have ever said to being anti union is that Express people should stop whining about the RLA and Fred's union busting tactics and just do it. The RLA and Fred's opposition are facts of life. They have been since this subject came up, they are today, and they will be tomorrow. How is that anti union?

Because you work for ground you idiot! Don't you understand!?

Now you got it. See its not that hard to understand.

 

[Glorifiedpackmule]

It would be beneficial for us if someone from IBT were on Brown cafe to give out real information and options. It's easy to sit here and say wouldn't it be nice if.. But the fact of the matter is our this is going to be tough to do with the RLA in place. Not impossible though.

 

[bbsam]

Because you work for ground you idiot! Don't you understand!?

that does fit his aptitude for logic.

 

[MrFedEx]

It would be beneficial for us if someone from IBT were on Brown cafe to give out real information and options. It's easy to sit here and say wouldn't it be nice if.. But the fact of the matter is our this is going to be tough to do with the RLA in place. Not impossible though.

Yes, it would. I'm not expecting anything from the IBT, but as someone else pointed-out, this is their last chance to get Express.

 

[Ricochet1a]

Not being sarcastic, But sometimes if you want to get things done you have to organize yourselfs first, Come together as a group... I would love it if you guys organized.. I use to eat lunch with the fdx guy, we both did a mall.... Everyday we would meet at food court...

About the best advice that can be given at this point for those in Express.

I agree but it will definitely be an uphill battle. Fred is about as anti union as they come and has no problem spending the cash to keep them out. We can't get them in at a local level. This is why we need teamsters resources.

There's no doubt that it would be an uphill battle. If you are smart, you'll make an exit plan from Express and get the hell out. The IBT gave up on Express when the FAA reauthorization went through and Express kept its RLA status. You are NOT going to get IBT resources, fact of life, all Express employees had better end the dreaming and accept this fact.

The IBT is in the BUSINESS of organizing labor. Given the hurdle of the RLA, the dispersed nature of Express stations, the very strong anti-union hit team FedEx has (the IBT pulled the organizing attempt in the Ground terminal in MA as a dry run to see if they could get a toe hold into FedEx - that failed miserably and the IBT won't even look at FedEx now with the possible exception of Freight and possibly the Express mechanics - hope is fading fast there), the IBT isn't going to waste its resources on what it sees as a losing proposition. They got burned back in the late 90's when they made some small effort towards Express - they won't do it again. YOU, the Express employee are going to have to do ALL of the legwork, get the cards signed and have 20,000 of them sitting in DC leaving the IBT with only needing to petition the NLRB for a certification election.

In the VERY small chance that you do manage to pull off a grass roots organizing drive, it will be YOU, the employees of Express who did the legwork and EARNED the union.

the closest thing I have ever said to being anti union is that Express people should stop whining about the RLA and Fred's union busting tactics and just do it. The RLA and Fred's opposition are facts of life. They have been since this subject came up, they are today, and they will be tomorrow. How is that anti union?

Couldn't agree more. Life is rough, nothing worth having is ever given away freely. The facts in regard to Express aren't going to change. The window of opportunity to have the rules of the game changed (pulling the RLA status) ended with the 2010 election. I did what I could back then to get things to change - most didn't want to believe that things could get worse or just plain stuck their head in the sand and choose not to listen. Who's to blame?

That's why my advice has always been to look for an exit strategy and get the hell out. If for whatever reason you can't or won't look for an exit strategy, you'd better start using your free time to start organizing and stop all the bitching and moaning that goes within this forum, and just get out there and do it. Getting on here and kicking some mud in Fred's face may make you feel better, but you're going to end up going to sleep, waking up tomorrow and going right back into his shearing shed tomorrow morning and doing the same thing over again.

It is often stated (Albert Einstein) that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the definition of insanity. All I see going on here is tribute to that definition.

When will you (plural) recognize that bitching and moaning isn't going to change your life one bit?

It would be beneficial for us if someone from IBT were on Brown cafe to give out real information and options. It's easy to sit here and say wouldn't it be nice if.. But the fact of the matter is our this is going to be tough to do with the RLA in place. Not impossible though.

The IBT sees you as a losing bet at this stage. That is why I advised everyone to call, so YOU could get first hand evidence of that fact.

It is going to be tough, DAMN TOUGH for the Couriers/RTDs of Express to organize - Fred has paid millions to make it as tough as possible. In the end, all it will take is enough of you to get the courage to start signing those cards, sending them in, get your coworkers to sign them, and start a movement to get Express organized. There is no 'wishing' needed - just some determined legwork.

Yes, it would. I'm not expecting anything from the IBT, but as someone else pointed-out, this is their last chance to get Express.

I honestly don't see the IBT looking at Express as a 'prize' that they are missing out on. UPS is their cash cow. Conversely, the IBT is having a little laugh right now in that the wage employees of Express decided to trust Fred and not organize when it may have stopped what is going on right now.

This is the GIANT misconception out there among Express employees. It's not the IBT's obligation to expend its resources and come to your rescue. It is YOUR obligation to expend some of your resources, and do some grassroots organizing and then hand off the proverbial ball to the IBT once critical mass is reached. If it wasn't for the RLA, the IBT would start some campaigning in locations that are favorable to unions. Fred S saw to it that the cost to the IBT to mount an organizing drive with the RLA in place would be prohibitive for them - thank Fred for that rather than blaming the IBT. Fred spent over $50 million in 2009-10 to lobby to keep the RLA - that was chump change for him. He is spending $650 million to get rid of the dead weight in Memphis right now (like I said he could) - again, chump change to him. The IBT CAN'T compete against those kinds of numbers - can't do it.

YOU need to spend some of your time in talking to your co-workers, spending a bit of your cash and organize the old fashioned way. I've said it before, you've got the 'luxury' of the internet and social networking which didn't exist 15 years ago. This is your BEST asset to attempt to organize. USE THEM.

Don't expect someone else out there to go to the effort to fight YOUR battle with YOUR employer - they've got their own problems to handle. You need to decide if the battle is something you want to fight, or recognize that you'd be better off in finding other employment and getting the hell out. If for whatever reason you decide you can't get out, then you had better start using your heads and fighting by organizing - and forget about kicking some occasional mud in Fred's face. He can handle lots of mud being kicked in his face - after all, tomorrow you are going to go to work, and deliver his volume.

At what point does the insanity end, and the organizing begin?

 

[hypo hanna]

I think the IBT needs us as much as we need the IBT. Their membership has been steadily dropping as well as their war chest.

Fred has been playing both sides to the middle. By pulling this last minute crap with raises among other things he strengthens UPS's hand at the bargaining table.

 

[MAKAVELI]

I think the IBT needs us as much as we need the IBT. Their membership has been steadily dropping as well as their war chest.

Fred has been playing both sides to the middle. By pulling this last minute crap with raises among other things he strengthens UPS's hand at the bargaining table.

That is a great point. The bargaining power that the ibt would have if they had the two largest companies in the industry would be immense.

 

[bbsam]

I think the IBT needs us as much as we need the IBT. Their membership has been steadily dropping as well as their war chest.

Fred has been playing both sides to the middle. By pulling this last minute crap with raises among other things he strengthens UPS's hand at the bargaining table.

not of Express couriers don't get moving right now.

 

[hypo hanna]

Whether the IBT wants to or not, it is in their own best interest to help us.

 

[Ricochet1a]

I think the IBT needs us as much as we need the IBT. Their membership has been steadily dropping as well as their war chest.

Fred has been playing both sides to the middle. By pulling this last minute crap with raises among other things he strengthens UPS's hand at the bargaining table.

Wrong (on the first part)...

The DC staff of the IBT is getting paid just fine with the revenue they've got coming in. Business isn't booming for them right now, but they are getting by just fine.

This is part of the misconception out there among Express employees - that they are some 'prize' to be gained if the price is right. The IBT sees nothing but liability when it comes to Express. The cost to organize Express would be prohibitive, and the history of Couriers (to overtures by IBT) has demonstrated that getting a majority in a one-time nationwide election wouldn't happen - thus why the move 3 years ago to pull the RLA from Express, allowing stations to be 'picked off' one at a time in local elections under NLRA rules. Too many Couriers are either scared or don't believe that things will get worse (just read the posts by some of the Express Couriers here) to have a single nationwide election turn up a majority.

Oh yes, the Couriers are angry... but they aren't going to do anything rash such as sign one of those repulsive union cards - won't do it. They want promises in advance of signing a simple petition to be represented by the IBT - guarantees of specific protections, guarantees of a certain minimum negotiated wage rate, an agreement to be wine and dined by the leadership of the IBT local... you name it (believe me, I was there as a Courier, had requests of 'guarantees' before someone would sign a rep card I handed them).

There are no guarantees.

It comes down to the simple fact of whether the Couriers will continue to trust in Fred, or see what Hoffa will do for them SHOULD they deliver enough rep cards to DC to guarantee a majority vote if the IBT petitions the NLRB for an election.

I liken this to the arguments philosophers use for the existence of God. They have well developed arguments for and against the existence of God (just as Couriers have for and against signing a union rep card). But in the end, it comes down to either accepting or rejecting the existence of God - one way or another, no middle ground, no going 'halfsies' and hedging one's bet with a small bit of insurance. It's one way or another, all in or all out.

This is the situation you are in as a Courier or RTD - you either need to go all in, or all out, there is no middle ground, no halfsies.

This is where YOU have to start doing some organizing work - getting the word out, dispelling the fear, countering the Express BS that they constantly feed out.

Believe it or not, by YOUR reading and posting to this forum, YOU are the leadership of any potential organization drive. YOU took the initiative to dig for information and to not accept the BS and get alternative viewpoints. YOU are the leadership whether you want to admit it or not.

By strengthening UPS's hand at the coming negotiations (keeping Express wage and compensation levels low), yes, Fred does give more power to UPS to take a hard line against the UPS drivers - but not much. Fred's whole game for the past 15 years has been to engage in a form of Chinese water torture (towards the wage employees). He knows the end goal he wants, but he isn't going to come right out and create alarm and give the fence sitters incentive to sign one of those dastardly union cards (make his changes in a single one time action). His game is to play it slow, gradually widen the compensation gap between UPS and Express till he gets where he wants. At the same time he is reorganizing Express to fit his ultimate goal. Another way to look at it is the frog in the kettle of water being heated. Has it gotten hot enough for you yet - or will you continue to complain while slowly being cooked?

But how in the hell does all of that help your position as an Express employee (knowing Fred's strategy)???

You are either all in or all out (organize or not) - halfsies don't do crap for your situation - neither does petty acts of sabotage or vandalism.

That is a great point. The bargaining power that the ibt would have if they had the two largest companies in the industry would be immense.

More dreaming....

Yes, the IBT would really like to have the labor in the only two non-USPS shipping providers in their pocket....

But they also know that they'll never be able to get Express the way things are set up. So they don't spend their time dreaming, they focus on the cash cow they have and wait for yet another day when potentially the RLA status will be pulled from Express. Problem is, for those in Express NOW, that will be much too late. The reorganization of Express will have been completed way before they have to worry about losing their RLA status - and by then, the career Courier will be history.

Take a look at Ground - Fred just loves his bastard step-children there getting off his volume for one-third the rate UPS has to pay their drivers.

Think about it... if the IBT was really wanting to make some waves, they'd focus on getting the IC/ISP model used in Ground to be declared an inappropriate use of the intent of the law - have a court rule as such, then IMMEDIATELY start attempts at organizing the Ground drivers.

Have you heard of any such action (current - not 2+ years ago), to have Ground's little arrangement declared an "unconscionable business practice" and have it ended? I haven't.

The REAL threat to UPS and its unionized employees is GROUND, NOT Express. Express is merely a player in the overnight market - a market which is shrinking slowly as shippers become ever more cost concerned and Ground's performance gets better and better.

I hate to be the 'downer' here, but in the greater scheme of things (to the IBT, UPS, UPS drivers...), Express just isn't really that important. For some reason, the employees of Express seem to have this concept that they have 'specialness', which extends to their belief that the IBT should be helping them out, since it would be in the IBT's best interest to do so. Those who were with Express back in the 90s and 80s tend to have this belief of 'specialness' more so than those with less than 10 years in.

Here's the reality - if you work for Express and work as a Courier, you drive a delivery truck for a living - that's it, nothing really special about it. There are 10's of thousands out there in the US who drive a delivery truck for a living.

Do you want to know what makes the drivers of UPS 'special'??? They drive a delivery truck for a living and make double what the typical delivery driver of Express makes, and triple what the delivery drivers of Ground makes. That's what makes the UPS drivers special.

How did they get that 'specialness'??? Sometime in the past their predecessors saw fit to organize and guarantee equitable treatment for themselves and their successors.

Wearing a FedEx shirt doesn't make you 'special' (Fred has the Ground drivers wearing the same shirts now...). Having union representation would make you 'special'.

 

[hypo hanna]

Ok I'll bite. We fedex drivers are not special. However, We and ground are competition for UPS. As our wages and benefits fall the IBT looses bargaining position. It might be fun to laugh at us now, but as your drivers have to start making one concession after another it may not be so funny in the future.