A
anonymous6
Guest
mostly negative comments on craigslist rants and raves and local/national news on striking Chicago teachers.
TearsInRain
IE boogeyman
since Federal law was amended to protect the worker, the primary purpose for a union is to extract as much money out of an organization as possible
not many people sympathize with that kind of greed
illinois is a steaming hand-wringing liberal ****hole anyways, i dunno why anyone would want to live there, and i consider myself pretty liberal
not many people sympathize with that kind of greed
illinois is a steaming hand-wringing liberal ****hole anyways, i dunno why anyone would want to live there, and i consider myself pretty liberal
cachsux
Wah
Fixed
Richard Harrow
Deplorable.
They'll receive no sympathy from me. Unions have no business in the public sector. It spells nothing but bad news for the taxpayers when a union goes to the bargaining table knowing that the person(s) that sit across from them are in their back pocket.
menotyou
bella amicizia
The taxpayers have people their negotiating on their side. They are as complicit in the contracts that everyone loves to bitch about as the unions themselves. When I see the legislature caring more about the kids than about how to give themselves a raise, then maybe I could start seeing your side of the argument. But, no one, except the teachers, seems to care about the kids anymore.
menotyou
bella amicizia
Again, that pay level was negotiated. There are two sides sitting at that table. Don't hate on the teacher because they were smarter than the average bear.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/opinion/01eggers.html
Educator salaries in New York | rocdocs
If you select Jefferson county and General Brown school, you will see a list of what every person in that district is paid. The teacher average appears to be about $58,000.
(I picked that school because I graduated from there)
Johney
Well-Known Member
Oh I'm not haten on them at all.I wouldn't cross their line for any reason and I would give them my support as a union member. I just don't think they are going to get a lot of support from locals.Again, that pay level was negotiated. There are two sides sitting at that table. Don't hate on the teacher because they were smarter than the average bear.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/01/opinion/01eggers.html
Educator salaries in New York | rocdocs
If you select Jefferson county and General Brown school, you will see a list of what every person in that district is paid. The teacher average appears to be about $58,000.
(I picked that school because I graduated from there)
STFXG
Well-Known Member
As in not being forced to drive for more than 14 hours in a day or 70 hours in a week? Those are laws protecting you...
FMLA is a law protecting workers.
Federal minimum wage.
Anti-discrimination laws.
OSHA regulations.
List is about a mile long of laws protecting workers.
PiedmontSteward
RTW-4-Less
That's not really the average salary and the Chicago teachers aren't striking over pay. They're striking over classroom sizes/lack of AC in classrooms/standardized testing being used to fire teachers. Rahm is trying to switch Chicago over to a charter school system to plow more money to his corporate private education pals. When the Chicago Teachers' Union "wins a major concession" last contract wherein teachers will receive text books within the first six weeks of class.. well, there's some
problems in Chicago.
moreluck
golden ticket member
That head teacher union lady on TV said they are close on the money , but still they don't want to pay anything toward their health care. Oh, and they said average $76,000....and isn't that for 9 months?That's not really the average salary and the Chicago teachers aren't striking over pay. They're striking over classroom sizes/lack of AC in classrooms/standardized testing being used to fire teachers. Rahm is trying to switch Chicago over to a charter school system to plow more money to his corporate private education pals. When the Chicago Teachers' Union "wins a major concession" last contract wherein teachers will receive text books within the first six weeks of class.. well, there's some
PiedmontSteward
RTW-4-Less
I'm pretty sure that they would have stayed at the bargaining table if this was simply over benefits/pay. The Emanuel administration also wanted to increase the school day by another hour or two. From In These Times: So what are the teachers fighting for? A better school day: A comprehensive education including not only curricula in math, science and history but also art, music, physical education and foreign languages in all Chicago Public Schools. Wraparound services and adequate staffing to support students in need: This includes counselors, social workers, librarians and school nurses with defined job descriptions as well as preparation and break time. Recall rights for educators and school staff: Hundreds of teachers have already been displaced by school closures across the city and more will be by the planned closing of at least 100 more schools in the coming years. Fair compensation: No merit pay, less reliance on standardized tests and pay commensurate to increased time in the classroom as well as inflation. CPS reneged last year on the contractually obligated 4 percent pay raise negotiated in 2007 and is currently offering annual 2 percent raises over the next four years. An independent fact-finder’s report released in July recommended pay raises of 15-18 percent next year. 4 Reasons Chicago’s Teachers Are On Strike - Working In These Times
moreluck
golden ticket member
I also think the teachers don't want to be held accountable for their poor teaching......students who can't read. They don't want any testing to find that out. What are they scared of?
They turned down a 16% pay increase over 4 years. Are they nuts?
I would get rid of tenure. Fire them all and get new fresh, teachers that are excited and not yet disillusioned. That would save Chicago a ton of money.
But, all the teachers would be on welfare and get a check for doing nothing.....that's what's happening now and the kids pay for it big time. If they aren't going to teach properly, then pay them babysitter wages.
They turned down a 16% pay increase over 4 years. Are they nuts?
I would get rid of tenure. Fire them all and get new fresh, teachers that are excited and not yet disillusioned. That would save Chicago a ton of money.
But, all the teachers would be on welfare and get a check for doing nothing.....that's what's happening now and the kids pay for it big time. If they aren't going to teach properly, then pay them babysitter wages.
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PiedmontSteward
RTW-4-Less
There's nothing wrong with holding bad teachers accountable - but you can't do that with standardized testing. I think this is a generational difference.. I grew up with this stuff (I'm 25) and it's ridiculous. You're probably a bit older (no offense) and were actually able to have a teacher TEACH you. Teachers are now forced to "teach the test" or suffer the consequences - when I did teacher observations back when I was thinking about being a high school US history teacher, I watched a teacher have his kids copy notes off the overhead. When I asked him about it, he admitted that he tried to do some innovative stuff when he was first hired (I was 19 at the time, this guy was in his mid-20's) but his test scores were crappy and his job was threatened. Standardized testing results also have a lot to do with the home environment.. and the people of Chicago are on pretty hard times right now, economically. Teachers in poorer school districts have kids that do worse on standardized testing - that's simply fact. Why should they lose their jobs solely based on test scores? Test scores are an "easy" way to judge a teacher's merit - same thing as judging a UPS driver's numbers. A runner/gunner looks great on paper until he flies through a stop sign and t-bones a kid on a bike.
menotyou
bella amicizia
I know about those laws. I have, also, watched UPS violate those laws on a regular basis.
brett636
Well-Known Member
There is a fantastic documentary out there called "Waiting for superman" which is about our nations public school system and the problems caused by the teachers unions themselves. They bring up the point that in Illinois one in 57 doctors will lose their medical license and one in 93 lawyers will lose their law license, but only one in 2500 teachers will lose their teaching license because the contract rules governing them make it very difficult to get rid of bad teachers. These teachers unions have to go, they are simply not looking out for the kids best interests and our kids are suffering as a result.
PobreCarlos
Well-Known Member
PiedmontSteward;
Your post sort of reminds me of the often-quoted union assertion of "a fair days work for a fair days pay", in which the union is always willing to quantify what a "fair days pay" is...but when it comes to quantifying what a "fair days work" is, it's a different story.
I see standardized tests like that, in that they're a necessary evil. Somehow, you have to QUANTIFY teacher effectiveness, otherwise there's really no way of objectively judging their performance. For example, in the case of the young teacher you mentioned, perhaps he was using some "innovative stuff", but when it came down to his students being able to demonstrate that they had learned "the basics" which standardized test place emphasis on - the essentials that EVERY student needs to know - he recognized that innovative stuff didn't cut it. Now I'm not saying that teachers shouldn't be innovative or creative, but if they can't bring their students around to learning the basics, then they need to be weeded-out.
Lastly, regarding you assertion that "Teachers in poorer school districts have kids that do worse on standardized testing", just why IS that? Granted, it may be true (and I'd be willing to judge teachers on the DIFFERENTIAL in such cases), but since when did "poorer" become an excuse for inferior academic performance? Maybe the parents ought to be made more aware that, simply because they're poor, that doesn't mean that their children should do poorly in school...and that, if they do, it's primarily THEIR fault. And if "poorer" families (I suspect in this instance, quite often - and unfortunately - a racial expression, given that "poorer" families of Asian and Eastern European background don't seem to have nearly the same problems with their children's academic performance) aren't willing to accept the responsibility of "bootstrapping" their children's education, then maybe it's time that society give up that goal as well...until such time as they ARE willing.
Sounds cold, I'm sure....but look what our education system has descended to. And I can't help but believe that the forces that brought it to that level are represented in large part by those out on strike in Chicago.
Your post sort of reminds me of the often-quoted union assertion of "a fair days work for a fair days pay", in which the union is always willing to quantify what a "fair days pay" is...but when it comes to quantifying what a "fair days work" is, it's a different story.
I see standardized tests like that, in that they're a necessary evil. Somehow, you have to QUANTIFY teacher effectiveness, otherwise there's really no way of objectively judging their performance. For example, in the case of the young teacher you mentioned, perhaps he was using some "innovative stuff", but when it came down to his students being able to demonstrate that they had learned "the basics" which standardized test place emphasis on - the essentials that EVERY student needs to know - he recognized that innovative stuff didn't cut it. Now I'm not saying that teachers shouldn't be innovative or creative, but if they can't bring their students around to learning the basics, then they need to be weeded-out.
Lastly, regarding you assertion that "Teachers in poorer school districts have kids that do worse on standardized testing", just why IS that? Granted, it may be true (and I'd be willing to judge teachers on the DIFFERENTIAL in such cases), but since when did "poorer" become an excuse for inferior academic performance? Maybe the parents ought to be made more aware that, simply because they're poor, that doesn't mean that their children should do poorly in school...and that, if they do, it's primarily THEIR fault. And if "poorer" families (I suspect in this instance, quite often - and unfortunately - a racial expression, given that "poorer" families of Asian and Eastern European background don't seem to have nearly the same problems with their children's academic performance) aren't willing to accept the responsibility of "bootstrapping" their children's education, then maybe it's time that society give up that goal as well...until such time as they ARE willing.
Sounds cold, I'm sure....but look what our education system has descended to. And I can't help but believe that the forces that brought it to that level are represented in large part by those out on strike in Chicago.
moreluck
golden ticket member
I thinkyour assessment of "poor" is right on.
My brother in law became a teacher and was ready to save the world. His first assignment was Margaret Park Grade School in Akron Ohio. I think it was one of the poorest in the city.
He started dealing with parents and his assessment of them was that from 8AM-3PM..they don't want to hear about the kids....they are all yours! They only want their kids in school for the babysitting . He had a masters in education....stuck it out for the year and then transferred. He made a career of it and retired but I have never seen anyone so unhappy all the time. He worked hard to pay for his own college.
My brother in law became a teacher and was ready to save the world. His first assignment was Margaret Park Grade School in Akron Ohio. I think it was one of the poorest in the city.
He started dealing with parents and his assessment of them was that from 8AM-3PM..they don't want to hear about the kids....they are all yours! They only want their kids in school for the babysitting . He had a masters in education....stuck it out for the year and then transferred. He made a career of it and retired but I have never seen anyone so unhappy all the time. He worked hard to pay for his own college.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Just plain stupid!!!
Unreal: Striking Chicago Teachers Union Protests Outside 9/11 Memorial Event…
Sickening.
Unreal: Striking Chicago Teachers Union Protests Outside 9/11 Memorial Event…
Sickening.
CHICAGO (WLS) - Dozens of striking Chicago teachers are protesting outside a Sept. 11 memorial event where Gov. Pat Quinn is speaking.
The Chicago Democrat hasn’t weighed in on the walkout, which entered its second day on Tuesday.
As he headed into the event, Quinn walked through the crowd, which sang “Amazing Grace” and held American flags. He said “Good luck.”
The teachers marched over from nearby Curie Metro High School on the city’s southwest side.
The Chicago Democrat hasn’t weighed in on the walkout, which entered its second day on Tuesday.
As he headed into the event, Quinn walked through the crowd, which sang “Amazing Grace” and held American flags. He said “Good luck.”
The teachers marched over from nearby Curie Metro High School on the city’s southwest side.
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