Oil prices

[wkmac]

The only problem with new ideas for energy is that everyone keeps saying, "it won't help us NOW."

Doesn't anyone out there think we should start somewhere?? Like start today !!

More,

I understand your frustration and valid point but it all depends on where you look is where you'll see action. Stop looking so much to news generated out of the Washington Beltway per say and instead look across America. She is starting to rally and awaken in the heartland and this is where the energy (No pun intended) to move us forward will come from.

I saw this yesterday coming out of Texas and it appears the local folks are moving ahead and starting to leave Washington behind and obviously IMHO this is a great thing.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080717/D91VR9N80.html

I noticed the talk about the 4 day work week and having gov't mandate this and that. All these things create their own good and bad but truth is, we can also do things a bit different ourselves. One thing we've started doing as just a small example is I will take our family grocery list with me to work and on my way home at night I past numerous stores so I stop and do the family grocery shopping. This prevents a seperate trip say some other time during the week or even a trip on the weekends. I know this doesn't seem like much but if we all just did one little thing like this on a weekly basis, it starts to add up.

Another thing we do is we look at what trips have to be made on a daily basis ie to work, kids activities, etc. and we calculate the miles for both our days. Who ever will drive the greater amount of miles, they take the better mileage vehicle with the idea of getting the most bang for the buck. Also if you happen to be able to do this like I can, use coasting at idle or even neutral where you can. My trip to work and home is completely on secondary and residential streets so especially at nights I coast in neutral a lot. At night my home trip of 16 miles is almost half coasting in neutral but at night I've almost got the roads to myslef so to speak. Just take advantage of what you can get. Also if you car is like mine and the display tells you what your MPG are on the fly, use that display and watch it like a hawk. Learn to make it your co-pilot (with all due respect to Jesus ) I make a game out of trying to see how long I can keep the display above 50 mpg and if I'm diligent, I can get an extra 2 and sometimes 3 days out of a tank of gas. I have several coasting spots where I hit 99 mpg and the display is 2 digits so I might be getting higher. Point is, find what you can do and what works and do it.

Back to the 4 day workweek idea and your comment about the 4 guys and that off day. You're right, if on the off day, all 4 guys jump in their cars and go do whatever, does it really save anything? I'm not here to force religion so please no one take what I'm about to say as such but to borrow an old biblical idea, what if as a nation and something done not by mandate but choice of individuals, that we cool our heels 1 day in seven? What if in my case say on Sunday, I said I'm not going out for anything and others followed? I'm not one to darken a church door on Sunday so it's easy for me to say this on the one hand but what if churches decided say to move their Sunday morning services to Saturday night in an effort to facilitate such an idea. I'm not advocating "Blue Laws" in any way, but if people stopped driving their cars of Sunday to the mall, Home Depot or Lowe's (I'm a bad boy when it comes to that one ) or other activities that involves burning gas or diesel, then some of these stores would just close because there's not enough bidness to justify being open. Therefore employees going to work on Sunday would not be driving to work and even more fuel saved. It's all about attitude and where we place priorities IMO. Now these things aren't without consequenses (reduction in 1 day's tax revenue for gov't, possible lost of some jobs as one day of work goes away and you consoldiate the load with lesser employees. etc.) so there may be some pain and other examples of blowback I've not even thought of but again, it's simply an idea to provoke thought on the issue.

All I'm saying is to look at your current lifestyle and write down daily of what your driving habits are over a period of several weeks or even a month. Feed that data into EDD to eliminate all right hand turns... just kidding, no look at you habits and see where you can combine trips. See what trips are absolutely mandatory and then where you can pigggyback other lifestyle functions to take place along those same trips. And you know what, think about those right turns. Think about doing things off cycle of peak traffic, look ahead and try and time traffic lights so when you see them red and you can slow down, even coasting, do so in the hopes of hitting it as it turns green so that you never have to come to a complete stop. Saves on the brakes too!

I honestly believe the 1st step towards energy independence is a mindset of being frugal with our time and therefore our gas if you will. Sometimes it's those little things that add up and build momentum towards the bigger ideals.


UPSlifer,

I understand the call for gov't intervention with our energy problem and as much as I'm a "against all gov't" kinda guy, some level of gov't intervention is going to happen. I know that and unhappily accept that reality. However, be careful as to what level you ask gov't to interfer. That 4 day workweek for example in theory sounds good but there could be unintended consequences for companies like UPS (and I know you correctly pointed out some valid exceptions) but people have a habit of letting human nature get carried away and those exceptions in the hands of people with power with unseen agendas have a history and bad habit of making those "exceptions" disappear by force of law. What if say FedEx were able to get UPS restricted to a 4 day workweek while they were free to do as they are? Never say never because History is slam full of "nevers" out the ying-yang!

America has her faults, her good and bad but I truly believe when it comes to situations, a crisis if you will, this IMHO is when America, liberty and economic free markets are at their best and we shine as the light on the hill that our founding fathers believed we should be. I'm cynical in the present course but taking our national foundation, even with it's many shortcomings, I'm still a "glass half full" kinda guy.

This is when the goodness of America and her people bring answers that make life in the rest of the world a better place. No argument we've brought our share of misery but good God look at all the wonderful things this country, NO STOP, country can sometimes confuse people to believe it was gov't, instead, this gathering of many people united in freedom and purpose who have given so much in the hopes of not only making their lives better, but all those who choose to follow their example.

This is when we lead by example and in the long run, this makes America greater and a leading light in the world.

JMHO and my way of saying to Moreluck, don't get discouraged. We truly are making headway. I just wonder how long before Al Gore sez the Pickens Plan was actually his idea!

See, I got ya to laugh!

 

[moreluck]

wkmac..... We definitely have made small changes in our errand running. We incorporate trips instead of running willy-nilly just to kill time.....because everyday is Saturday to us.

One of my daily trips (must have) is to Starbucks located inside our grocery store. I may be ready for my treat at 8AM, but also need to pick up a prescription inside the store. I will wait 'til after 9 when the pharmacy is open to get both. Very small attempt, but it's one car trip instead of 2.

I also don't try to 'gun it' and beat every car when the light turns green. My Mini usually can beat most of them, but I try to be 'nice' now. I only visit the gas station maybe once a month in my car.(if that) I don't travel very far. I just put on my Bobby Darin CD and mellow out to Beyond The Sea.

Granted, these attempts are small, but cumatively (sp) with everyone making small attempts, there can be a difference made. I get it.

Good thing my computer doesn't run on gas!!

 

[wkmac]

Granted, these attempts are small, but cumatively (sp) with everyone making small attempts, there can be a difference made. I get it.

They still climb Mt. Everest one step at a time. Thanks for the effort.

Good thing my computer doesn't run on gas!!

Well it could be natural gas in a way but seems T. Boone Pickens wants to help make that wind. Could you imagine the Guzillion Mega-Watts of power if they could harness all the "WIND" that get's blown around in all the different BC forums?

Cheryl, you wanna get filthy rich? Figure a way to take all this "WIND" and generate power from it.

LMFAO@ ALL OF US AT BC!!!!!!!!!!

 

[UPS Lifer]

I hate to say this but I think it is reality... Americans don't change until they feel it in the pocketbook! I was driving down I 10 from Arizona to California on Friday. This is normally a super heavy day for motor homes and boat trailers.

I noticed very few recreational vehicles going towards Blythe! This is summer, my experience points to 25 to 30 vehicles out of every 100 are river bound! I only counted 21 recreational vehicles out of 300! People are staying home or going local to save money.

You will hate to hear this but there are two gas stations in Sedona that are still under $4 a gallon for regular! Just a couple of days ago it went to $3.98 from 3.93 a gallon! California is around 50 cents higher!!! It is a 423 mile trip from Sedona to Corona and my vette uses 14 gallons. I am blessed that this car gets great gas mileage. My wife has a Denali and she uses about 28 gallons for the trip.

 

[wkmac]

Why is that gas goes up daily when the barrel price goes up daily but when the price drops per barrel by nearly $20 a barrel, gas hasn't dropped a penny!



I know why, I was just having a laugh at the situation we find ourselves in. If we don't laugh, we'll just go crazy.

I do agree with UPSlifer, it takes pain to make us react. Nature of the beast.

 

[satellitedriver]

Thanks for the link, wkmac.
Most people think Texans are just full of hot air.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080717/D91VR9N80.html
It ain't brag, when it is fact.

 

[Jones]

 

[wkmac]

Jones,

Loved the cartoon. IMO the top part is free markets and the bottom is merchantilism but the real point I wanted to make is I did find a minor mistake or not mistake but oversight. Where the line comes out of the car showing carbon to global warming and then to "no effect", it really should be to a combine of Wall Street and Gov't who are trying to create a market as we speak in which that waste product carbon will become a trading commodity in which people can get rich.

From that, gov't can tax and then gov't can get rich and when gov't is rich, they make our lives even more miserable than they already are!

 

[wkmac]

Testimony of T. Boone Pickens. Again, I'm not pro or con his plan (I do love the wind generation) but I do promote the idea of making it a topic that causes America to finally have a conversation that we should have had years ago. It's also an issue in which I believe the average American will in the end enjoy a win/win and the simple fact is, oil is causing us problems across many fronts so it's time to think about doing something different. Pickens testimony IMHO is worth the 90 plus minutes it takes to watch.

 

[brazenbrown]

This past week the dems shut off the lights in congress turned off the C-Span mikes and headed home for vacation while many republicans stayed in the dark to try and get some resolution to our oil crisis. They stayed several hours giving speeches and trying to get Bush to make congress come back on Monday to finish the job.
House Dems turn out the lights but GOP keeps talking

Previous to this Nancy Pelosi would not let a vote to solve the oil crisis come to the floor even though a majority of Americans want it.

On Friday Obama flip/flopped and said he will now consider drilling!! What will Nancy do?? Flip flopping is one thing but not allowing a vote to come to the floor and then leaving the work undone only to have the Democratic President elect change his mind really makes her look incompetent..

Obama will consider off-shore drilling

How about we bring to the floor an order to Impeach Pelosi so we can get some things done in Congress??

 

[Jones]

Offshore drilling won't solve the "oil crisis". In all likelihood it won't make any difference whatsoever in the price we pay at the pump because the price per barrel is set on the world market, where demand is rising faster than any miniscule amount of oil we get from offshore drilling will even begin to offset. Not to mention that even if the oil companies get the go ahead to drill, it will be up to 10 years or so before we see a drop from any new wells. There's estimated to be approximately 4.5 billion barrels of oil in the offshore areas where we currently have a moratorium. At our current rate of consumption that works to about 7 or 8 months worth of oil, then we're back to square one. And remember that assuming they lift the moratorium tomorrow, the absolute soonest we would see a drop of that oil would be 7 years from now.
Drilling in ANWR doesn't make it any better, here's a report from EIA that released in May of this year:
click

The real answer, both short and long term, is to get off oil period. Congress and the administration should be using the current situation as an opportunity to explore real solutions instead of grandstanding and pointing fingers.

 

[scratch]

The "ten years to drill offshore" is pure fantasy. I saw an oil exploration company spokesman on TV that said it could be done in as little as one year, two at the most, depending how fast a drilling platform could be put in place. Its crazy to stand around and watch the Cubans and Chinese drill in the Gulf of Mexico and do nothing. Nancy Pelosi needs to wake up, she is not going to save the planet. The technology in drilling has greatly improved since the Santa Barbara oil spills decades ago. We still need to get off our foreign oil dependency, as well as domestic. We need to develop alternative forms and stop the political games going on. If OBama wants us to be like the Europeans, he needs to recognize that they use nuclear power a lot.

 

[satellitedriver]

I have an oil trader on my route.
He told me (2 months ago) if there was any move to drill off our shores he was selling all his futures because prices would fall.
Guru talking heads have been pondering why the barrel price started moving down?
Most say world demand is down and the dollar had a slight rebound.Blah, blah. Yada, Yada.
The strange thing to me was that the price started falling just two days after GW lifted the Presidential offshore drilling ban.
Pure coincidence?
I doubt it.

 

[moreluck]

PELOSI

 

[Jones]

The "ten years to drill offshore" is pure fantasy. I saw an oil exploration company spokesman on TV that said it could be done in as little as one year, two at the most, depending how fast a drilling platform could be put in place. Its crazy to stand around and watch the Cubans and Chinese drill in the Gulf of Mexico and do nothing. Nancy Pelosi needs to wake up, she is not going to save the planet. The technology in drilling has greatly improved since the Santa Barbara oil spills decades ago. We still need to get off our foreign oil dependency, as well as domestic. We need to develop alternative forms and stop the political games going on. If OBama wants us to be like the Europeans, he needs to recognize that they use nuclear power a lot.

Of course an oil company spokesman would say that, he stands to make a lot of money if the ban is lifted so he has an interest in generating enthusiasm for lifting it. In fact that's pretty much the only thing anyone can guarantee will happen if the ban is lifted: oil companies will make money selling that oil (at rates set on the world market, btw. Remember that in a free market they have no reason to sell oil to the US any cheaper than they can sell it to the Chinese).

Once again, here is the administration's own assessment for offshore drilling from a report released in 2007 (this report assumes leasing would begin in 2012, when the current moratorium expires. You can knock 4 years off all the dates to assume for the ban lifted in 2008):

The projections in the OCS access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case (Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.

But if you would rather take the advice of some daytrader on Satellite's route, or an oil industry guy who is making record profits (off you and your car) and wants to make sure that we all stay hooked on what he has to sell, be my guest.

The above scenario assumes a 5 year span from leasing to production ( hey, it's better than 10!), but really what that means is that oil will all be gone that much quicker and we'll be right back where we started. Except for the oil companies that is, they'll be a couple billion dollars richer

I do agree with you on nuclear power. At least we don't have to import it.

 

[1989]

I haven't heard anyone say that just drilling is the answer.
Nobody knows for sure how much oil reserves are in the US.
Oil prices move on future events. six months, one year, 5 years, 10 years down the road.
China and other countries reducing the gas subsidies to their citizens will reduce demand.
If the US is selling the oil it's less money going abroad. (which is good)
That makes more competition which tends to lower prices. And will help produce US jobs.

Doing nothing does what? Nothing!

 

[Jones]

I haven't heard anyone say that just drilling is the answer.
Nobody knows for sure how much oil reserves are in the US.
Oil prices move on future events. six months, one year, 5 years, 10 years down the road.
China and other countries reducing the gas subsidies to their citizens will reduce demand.
If the US is selling the oil it's less money going abroad. (which is good)
That makes more competition which tends to lower prices. And will help produce US jobs.

Doing nothing does what? Nothing!

Actually, we have a pretty good idea:

United States proven oil reserves declined to a little less than 21 billion barrels (3.3×109 m3) in 2006 according to the Energy Information Administration[43], a 46% decline from 39 billion barrels (6.2×109 m3) in 1970. U.S. crude production peaked in 1970 at 9.6 million barrels per day (1.53×106 m3/d), and had declined 47% to 5.1 million barrels per day (810×103 m3/d) by 2006. [44] This represents about an 11 year supply of oil reserves at current rates of production. United States crude oil production has been declining since reaching a smaller secondary production peak in 1988 (caused by Alaskan production).

With over 2.3 million wells having been drilled in the US since 1949,[45] the likelihood of discovering new large oilfields is extremely slim. U.S. oil reserve numbers are very accurate compared to those of most other countries.
Because of declining production and increasing demand, US imports of oil and petroleum products increased by 400% from 3.4 million barrels per day (540×103 m3/d) in 1970 to 13.6 million barrels per day (2.16×106 m3/d) in 2006. Its largest suppliers of petroleum products in 2006 were Canada and Mexico, which supplied 2.3 and 1.7 Mbbl/d (370×103 and 270×103 m3/d), respectively.[46]
Imports of oil and products account for nearly half of the US trade deficit. As of 2007, the Energy Information Agency (EIA) of the US Department of Energy projected that in 2007 oil consumption would rise to 20.9 million barrels per day (3.32×106 m3/d), while oil production would fall to 5.1 million barrels per day (810×103 m3/d), meaning that oil consumption would be nearly four times as high as oil production.[47]
In April 2008, the United States Geological Survey (USGS) released a report giving a new resource assessment of the Bakken Formation underlying portions of Montana and North Dakota. The USGS believes that with new horizontal drilling technology there is somewhere between 3.0 and 4.5 billion barrels (480×106 and 720×106 m3) of recoverable oil remaining to be discovered in this 200,000 square miles (520,000 km²) formation that was initially discovered in 1951. If accurate, this reassessment would make it the largest continuous oil formation ever discovered in the U.S.[48] However, it would represent only a five to seven month supply of oil for the United States at current (2007) rates of consumption.
A May 2008 assessment by the EIA estimated potential cumulative production of the 1002 area of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to be a maximum of 4.3 billion barrels from 2018 to 2030. This estimate is a best case scenario of technically recoverable oil during the area's primary production years if legislation were passed in 2008 to allow drilling.[49]

 

[brazenbrown]

The "ten years to drill offshore" is pure fantasy. I saw an oil exploration company spokesman on TV that said it could be done in as little as one year, two at the most, depending how fast a drilling platform could be put in place. Its crazy to stand around and watch the Cubans and Chinese drill in the Gulf of Mexico and do nothing. Nancy Pelosi needs to wake up, she is not going to save the planet. The technology in drilling has greatly improved since the Santa Barbara oil spills decades ago. We still need to get off our foreign oil dependency, as well as domestic. We need to develop alternative forms and stop the political games going on. If OBama wants us to be like the Europeans, he needs to recognize that they use nuclear power a lot.

You're absoultely right!! Imagine that others can drill off our coasts but we can't..Now that's bass ackwards for ya!!

Actually, we have a pretty good idea:

How about a revision?

The Bakken Formation in the western Dakotas and eastern Montana has been re-evaluated by USGS, taking it from a very minor producer to containing upwards of 413 billion barrels; however there are some production problems with this formation. By comparison, Saudi Arabia currently is estimated to have reserves of 269 billion barrels.

Time and money are being wasted by our lack of progress in solving the oil crisis. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (Texas) has recently proposed a realistic solution to these problems — the Domestic Energy Production Act of 2008. Her bill will allow development of more than a billion barrels of oil and extensive gas reserves, in the trillions of cubic feet. Senator Hutchinson's bill would also expedite the process for building new refineries and clean, safe nuclear power plants, as well as funding the development of alternative fuels.
None of this will happen, with the consequent reduction in energy costs, unless Congress gets off dead center and acts. I hope Senator McCain takes this information to heart and leads us out of this morass.

The truth about ANWR

There is no oil shortage

I haven't heard anyone say that just drilling is the answer.

Doing nothing does what? Nothing!

Amen to that. Obviously drilling isn't the only answer but it's a start to get us off of the middle east oil and any reduction there in my mind is a good thing!!

 

[Jones]

How about a revision?

The Bakken Formation in the western Dakotas and eastern Montana has been re-evaluated by USGS, taking it from a very minor producer to containing upwards of 413 billion barrels; however there are some production problems with this formation. By comparison, Saudi Arabia currently is estimated to have reserves of 269 billion barrels.

Wow, 413 billion barrels just sitting there in Montana, huh? So why are we so worried about the paltry 4.5 billion barrels we can get from offshore drilling? Could you be missing something? Naahhh, no way! Just to be certain though, you might want to go back and re-read the reports issued by both the USGS and the state of North Dakota on the Bakken formation (where all that Montana oil is) in April of this year. Pay close attention when they talk about "recoverable oil". There's plenty that your boy Dick Shamp isn't telling you in his op-ed, which is honestly no surprise. There's a reason he's writing op-eds and not doing something where he's actually held accountable.

Time and money are being wasted by our lack of progress in solving the oil crisis. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison (Texas) has recently proposed a realistic solution to these problems — the Domestic Energy Production Act of 2008. Her bill will allow development of more than a billion barrels of oil and extensive gas reserves, in the trillions of cubic feet. Senator Hutchinson's bill would also expedite the process for building new refineries and clean, safe nuclear power plants, as well as funding the development of alternative fuels.
None of this will happen, with the consequent reduction in energy costs, unless Congress gets off dead center and acts. I hope Senator McCain takes this information to heart and leads us out of this morass.
The truth about ANWR

There is no oil shortage
Amen to that. Obviously drilling isn't the only answer but it's a start to get us off of the middle east oil and any reduction there in my mind is a good thing!!

A billion barrels of oil is about a 2 month supply at our current rate of consumption. What does Sen Hutchinson plan to do after that?

 

[1989]

How about oil shale?

http://ostseis.anl.gov/guide/oilshale/index.cfm