PRAYING FOR NEGOTIATORS TO GET US A GREAT CONTRACT!!!!

[IzzyTheNose]

It seems like some people want to strike, just for the heck of it.

I don't think that's the case at all. Anyone that has been paying attention since the last strike, has seen the Union agree to concessions on each subsequent contract that has followed.

The last contract was held up because of an early promise that we weren't going to pay for our benefits, was broken. Now here we are, a full decade after the recession, where UPS profited in the BILLIONS, even when the automotive industry all but folded in Detroit, and the country saw a massive impact in both the housing market, and the industrial sector.

Ecommerce is only GROWING. UPS continues to make more money every year. So why is our slice of the pie getting smaller?

People talking about a strike now are merely fed up with the pattern they've been seeing contract after contract. If you ask me, all the strike talk is about 2 contracts too late. At least people now are finally paying close enough attention to give a damn.

 

[brownIEman]

I don't think that's the case at all. Anyone that has been paying attention since the last strike, has seen the Union agree to concessions on each subsequent contract that has followed.

The last contract was held up because of an early promise that we weren't going to pay for our benefits, was broken. Now here we are, a full decade after the recession, where UPS profited in the BILLIONS, even when the automotive industry all but folded in Detroit, and the country saw a massive impact in both the housing market, and the industrial sector.

Ecommerce is only GROWING. UPS continues to make more money every year. So why is our slice of the pie getting smaller?

People talking about a strike now are merely fed up with the pattern they've been seeing contract after contract. If you ask me, all the strike talk is about 2 contracts too late. At least people now are finally paying close enough attention to give a damn.

How do you figure the union hourly slice of the pie is getting smaller? Which contract reduced compensation? I'm pretty sure every contract for decades has included hourly raises, have they not?

You are correct that UPS is profiting billions, and you are correct to want to fight for a fair share of UPS revenue.
Are you also aware that UPS share of the small package market continues to decline? Or that the percentage of UPS profits that comes from it's domestic small package operation likewise has declined?

 

[DELACROIX]

How do you figure the union hourly slice of the pie is getting smaller? Which contract reduced compensation? I'm pretty sure every contract for decades has included hourly raises, have they not?

You are correct that UPS is profiting billions, and you are correct to want to fight for a fair share of UPS revenue.
Are you also aware that UPS share of the small package market continues to decline? Or that the percentage of UPS profits that comes from it's domestic small package operation likewise has declined?

The overall increase in internet shipping has more than compensated for the loss of the small package market. The added surcharges associated with our rates have not been appreciated by some of our customers who are becoming a bit too demanding. There is no such thing now as a SMALL package division, we have become a SMALL freight company, the continuing size and weight of our packages are increasing putting more physical strain on the employee who handle them. Everyday when I get into the hub, there they are sitting, missing service because there is not enough drivers or room on the package car for them, funny thing is those are the high revenue ones.

It is not the fault of the ground troops that our market share has dropped, but some of the decision making on the many, many layers of corporate look good on paper that is driving our customer base away to other couriers. Should we take a hit for uninformed decision making, the long term union employee is the gold standard that the company has, like you said we deserve a fair share.

 

[brownIEman]

The overall increase in internet shipping has more than compensated for the loss of the small package market. The added surcharges associated with our rates have not been appreciated by some of our customers who are becoming a bit too demanding. There is no such thing now as a SMALL package division, we have become a SMALL freight company, the continuing size and weight of our packages are increasing putting more physical strain on the employee who handle them. Everyday when I get into the hub, there they are sitting, missing service because there is not enough drivers or room on the package car for them, funny thing is those are the high revenue ones.

It is not the fault of the ground troops that our market share has dropped, but some of the decision making on the many, many layers of corporate look good on paper that is driving our customer base away to other couriers. Should we take a hit for uninformed decision making, the long term union employee is the gold standard that the company has, like you said we deserve a fair share.

You absolutely deserve a fair share. You are also hands down the highest compensated workers in the industry, so it could be argued that you are getting a fair share.

The total cost for UPS to provide service has been rising steadily as UPS' market share has been declining, and that is not a coincidence.

Yes, the explosion of ecommerse has meant UPS total volume has gone up as it's percentage of the market has dropped. If the trend does not stop, though, won't matter how big that market gets if UPS' share goes to zero.

The real concern I have is the folks who believe the past several contracts were major concessions when they have all continued the trend of significantly raising UPS' cost to serve. There seems to be a large movement in the ranks who believe UPS' revenues are essentially infinite and will only be satisfied by a massive increase in compensation costs that will lead to an increase in the speed of UPS' race to zero percent market share.

In otherworlds, if your negotiators get you a great contract, how many on here will be able to recognize it as such?

 

[govols019]

Hope the sky doesn't hurt when it falls on you.

 

[sandwich]

You absolutely deserve a fair share. You are also hands down the highest compensated workers in the industry, so it could be argued that you are getting a fair share.

The total cost for UPS to provide service has been rising steadily as UPS' market share has been declining, and that is not a coincidence.

Yes, the explosion of ecommerse has meant UPS total volume has gone up as it's percentage of the market has dropped. If the trend does not stop, though, won't matter how big that market gets if UPS' share goes to zero.

The real concern I have is the folks who believe the past several contracts were major concessions when they have all continued the trend of significantly raising UPS' cost to serve. There seems to be a large movement in the ranks who believe UPS' revenues are essentially infinite and will only be satisfied by a massive increase in compensation costs that will lead to an increase in the speed of UPS' race to zero percent market share.

In otherworlds, if your negotiators get you a great contract, how many on here will be able to recognize it as such?

All I know is what I see. My route gets heavier and tighter. I'm doing a lot more work now than I was 10 years ago. Other things I've seen is their profits increasing and getting a big tax cut. Let me simplify it. Let's say you worked for a very successful very large company with massive profits, and you were putting in more hours and doing more work. Would you want a raise?

 

[brownIEman]

Hope the sky doesn't hurt when it falls on you.

The sky is made of air, so bits of it fall on all of us every day and generally it does not hurt.

But thank you for the lucid well thought out counter point.

 

[brownIEman]

All I know is what I see. My route gets heavier and tighter. I'm doing a lot more work now than I was 10 years ago. Other things I've seen is their profits increasing and getting a big tax cut. Let me simplify it. Let's say you worked for a very successful very large company with massive profits, and you were putting in more hours and doing more work. Would you want a raise?

If course I would. But I'd be a fool to think the only fair thing would be half the work for twice the pay. Or, as Ken H suggested in the past that UPS should pay every employee the same for 1/3 the work they currently do.

UPS is currently succeeding mostly because of its advantage in stop density. The company will not give up that advantage without getting something in return.

 

[sandwich]

If course I would. But I'd be a fool to think the only fair thing would be half the work for twice the pay. Or, as Ken H suggested in the past that UPS should pay every employee the same for 1/3 the work they currently do.

UPS is currently succeeding mostly because of its advantage in stop density. The company will not give up that advantage without getting something in return.

Whos asking for half the work at twice the pay? All im asking for is to not punch out at 1030 pm 3 days in a row when its not peak. 9.5 to 10 hours a day is more than enough. Honestly i dont care how ups is succeeding. They are making more than ever and hourlies are working more than ever. Time to fix that.

 

[brownIEman]

Whos asking for half the work at twice the pay? All im asking for is to not punch out at 1030 pm 3 days in a row when its not peak. 9.5 to 10 hours a day is more than enough. Honestly i dont care how ups is succeeding. They are making more than ever and hourlies are working more than ever. Time to fix that.

I agree with you in principle.
The trick though is how to fix the excessive hours without destroying what allows UPS to be successful. It would behoove you to care about what makes UPS successful before you vote on a contract.

Hopefully you can get 9.5 language with some real teeth in it, but UPS is not likely to give that up without getting something in return

 

[ski or die]

You absolutely deserve a fair share. You are also hands down the highest compensated workers in the industry, so it could be argued that you are getting a fair share.

The total cost for UPS to provide service has been rising steadily as UPS' market share has been declining, and that is not a coincidence.

Yes, the explosion of ecommerse has meant UPS total volume has gone up as it's percentage of the market has dropped. If the trend does not stop, though, won't matter how big that market gets if UPS' share goes to zero.

The real concern I have is the folks who believe the past several contracts were major concessions when they have all continued the trend of significantly raising UPS' cost to serve. There seems to be a large movement in the ranks who believe UPS' revenues are essentially infinite and will only be satisfied by a massive increase in compensation costs that will lead to an increase in the speed of UPS' race to zero percent market share.

In otherworlds, if your negotiators get you a great contract, how many on here will be able to recognize it as such?

Sounds like a manager who knows if the hourly get a little bit better piece of the pie, his future share will be smaller. I guess the old adage of looking out for number 1 works in your case. I remember several managers complain to me about past contracts how they affected their salaries, bonuses, and insurance.

 

[1989]

I agree with you in principle.
The trick though is how to fix the excessive hours without destroying what allows UPS to be successful. It would behoove you to care about what makes UPS successful before you vote on a contract.

Hopefully you can get 9.5 language with some real teeth in it, but UPS is not likely to give that up without getting something in return

Maybe UPS just needs to be ok with only $4bil a year instead of $5bil a year. 235 stops / 440 pcs a day. Is 2-3+ days work for other carriers.

 

[sandwich]

I agree with you in principle.
The trick though is how to fix the excessive hours without destroying what allows UPS to be successful. It would behoove you to care about what makes UPS successful before you vote on a contract.

Hopefully you can get 9.5 language with some real teeth in it, but UPS is not likely to give that up without getting something in return

There is no fixing excessive overtime without hiring. It seems like we could use less i.e. people and management people in general, and add a couple routes per center. It seems like the more corporate takes control and the more they squeeze us the more it seems we are losing customers.

 

[brownIEman]

Maybe UPS just needs to be ok with only $4bil a year instead of $5bil a year. 235 stops / 440 pcs a day. Is 2-3+ days work for other carriers.

I like your math. Hopefully you understand though, if UPS splits every route into 2-3+ routes and hires the request extra drivers and loaders to handle that it's going to likely eat up all 5b in profit, and then some.

 

[1989]

I like your math. Hopefully you understand though, if UPS splits every route into 2-3+ routes and hires the request extra drivers and loaders to handle that it's going to likely eat up all 5b in profit, and then some.

I’m just telling you how it is. Nobody is asking to add 2-3 times the routes.

 

[brownIEman]

Sounds like a manager who knows if the hourly get a little bit better piece of the pie, his future share will be smaller. I guess the old adage of looking out for number 1 works in your case. I remember several managers complain to me about past contracts how they affected their salaries, bonuses, and insurance.

Actually, I am completely divested financially from UPS at this point, aside from a pension in the future, and that's basically beer money. Although, if the IBT does call a strike, I will be buying some shares as I feel confident I could game the emotions of the market in that scenario.

Your manager was not completely wrong however. Every contract since 1997 has significantly increased UPS' cost to serve, and UPS has taken many measures to control costs where it could in other places. For instance, in 2009 right after the financial crisis exploded, all management salaries were frozen. Management were taken off the old health plan back in '95 ish I think and had to start sharing a small portion of the costs of their coverage. I am not a me, me, me look out for only number one type of guy, never have been. I am all for hourly employee's getting their fair share of the pie as it were. I am simply suggesting perhaps they are and have been, and are likely to continue to do so in this contract, even if many do not recognize it.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Actually, I am completely divested financially from UPS at this point, aside from a pension in the future, and that's basically beer money. Although, if the IBT does call a strike, I will be buying some shares as I feel confident I could game the emotions of the market in that scenario.

Your manager was not completely wrong however. Every contract since 1997 has significantly increased UPS' cost to serve, and UPS has taken many measures to control costs where it could in other places. For instance, in 2009 right after the financial crisis exploded, all management salaries were frozen. Management were taken off the old health plan back in '95 ish I think and had to start sharing a small portion of the costs of their coverage. I am not a me, me, me look out for only number one type of guy, never have been. I am all for hourly employee's getting their fair share of the pie as it were. I am simply suggesting perhaps they are and have been, and are likely to continue to do so in this contract, even if many do not recognize it.

As long as half of these knuckle heads get their 75¢ raise, they won't notice the other give backs. They ate too worried about the now and not the Future. That's why UPS drags the contract out, all off the time.

 

[upschuck]

Technically, for us to keep our same piece of the pie, our compensation should go up ~5%/year.

 

[brownIEman]

Technically, for us to keep our same piece of the pie, our compensation should go up ~5%/year.

And when you factor in the yearly increase in health coverage payment and pension payments do you honestly believe it has not?

 

[upschuck]

And when you factor in the yearly increase in health coverage payment and pension payments do you honestly believe it has not?

Idk