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<blockquote data-quote="rickyb" data-source="post: 1495926" data-attributes="member: 56035"><p>again its nice to have a serious conversation with you.</p><p></p><p></p><p>i dont think u necessarily gain wealth under capitalism if you work harder as an employee. so when i worked at a railway, i was paid $30/hr whether I went fast or worked to rule. it sometimes rewards you but often does not. and thats why alot of employees do as little work as possible to keep their jobs.</p><p></p><p>ive never heard any of the guys i listen to mention "market forces for setting a practical price on labor" so you'd have to elaborate and im skeptical of it. they only mention that the real wage reached its peak in 1973 i believe.</p><p></p><p>right i disagree with alot of ron paul's economic theory. the whole argument for "free markets" has been completely taken out of context; chomsky quotes the book where free markets and the invisible hand are actually mentioned. i believe free markets in teh long term are destructive and concentrate wealth. piketty just wrote a book showing how capitalism systematically concentrates wealth over time. on top of that they emphasize private property too much and i think the climate catastrophe dictates in part that we find a way to share resources more like a library, or subway which markets dont offer. marx was right that capitalism will consume the environment until it consumes itself and ceases to function. anyways free markets are supposed to come with free movement of labor across borders and we dont have that either.</p><p></p><p>I am saying as an employee corporations are tyrannies. I mean as an employee if you dont do what they tell you, they can call the cops with guns. if capitalism was democratic, then the workers would vote on how to run the company including voting in managers. they are traitors as well, they pack up jobs to 3rd world dictatorships, take government subsidies, often dont pay taxes, rip off workers on their pensions and wages. i think these behaviors are expected and are what the system capitalism drives towards. </p><p></p><p>o i know. the terrorism in france is because they invaded some other countries cant recall what the names were. the terrorists hate american forgien policy which is to overthrow democracy, install dictators, do mass murder, and steal resources.</p><p></p><p>i agree corporations are allowed to influence education because teh government allows it. even if the public education system was doing good, they'd still want in on it.</p><p></p><p>so i havent looked into sowell since the beginning of this conversation but one ridiculous thing he said was that even though the walton family has all kinds of wealth (more than the bottom 40% of the US popuilation) they dont have power simply because consumers can choose not to buy there. i think thats ridiculous. im sure if u or i looked at alot of other arguments he said we could easily say the same thing.</p><p></p><p>if orwell lived long enough to become a libertarian socialist (not sure if he was, it sounds like he was, im no expert but ive looked into this stuff full time since late 2011) then he would be right. thats what i am. i agree that russias "communism" and the nazi's "socialism" were just names they applied to their political economy for their own agendas. these words hardly mean anything nowadays because their definitions have been so badly skewed by the above mentioned and the american propaganda.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="rickyb, post: 1495926, member: 56035"] again its nice to have a serious conversation with you. i dont think u necessarily gain wealth under capitalism if you work harder as an employee. so when i worked at a railway, i was paid $30/hr whether I went fast or worked to rule. it sometimes rewards you but often does not. and thats why alot of employees do as little work as possible to keep their jobs. ive never heard any of the guys i listen to mention "market forces for setting a practical price on labor" so you'd have to elaborate and im skeptical of it. they only mention that the real wage reached its peak in 1973 i believe. right i disagree with alot of ron paul's economic theory. the whole argument for "free markets" has been completely taken out of context; chomsky quotes the book where free markets and the invisible hand are actually mentioned. i believe free markets in teh long term are destructive and concentrate wealth. piketty just wrote a book showing how capitalism systematically concentrates wealth over time. on top of that they emphasize private property too much and i think the climate catastrophe dictates in part that we find a way to share resources more like a library, or subway which markets dont offer. marx was right that capitalism will consume the environment until it consumes itself and ceases to function. anyways free markets are supposed to come with free movement of labor across borders and we dont have that either. I am saying as an employee corporations are tyrannies. I mean as an employee if you dont do what they tell you, they can call the cops with guns. if capitalism was democratic, then the workers would vote on how to run the company including voting in managers. they are traitors as well, they pack up jobs to 3rd world dictatorships, take government subsidies, often dont pay taxes, rip off workers on their pensions and wages. i think these behaviors are expected and are what the system capitalism drives towards. o i know. the terrorism in france is because they invaded some other countries cant recall what the names were. the terrorists hate american forgien policy which is to overthrow democracy, install dictators, do mass murder, and steal resources. i agree corporations are allowed to influence education because teh government allows it. even if the public education system was doing good, they'd still want in on it. so i havent looked into sowell since the beginning of this conversation but one ridiculous thing he said was that even though the walton family has all kinds of wealth (more than the bottom 40% of the US popuilation) they dont have power simply because consumers can choose not to buy there. i think thats ridiculous. im sure if u or i looked at alot of other arguments he said we could easily say the same thing. if orwell lived long enough to become a libertarian socialist (not sure if he was, it sounds like he was, im no expert but ive looked into this stuff full time since late 2011) then he would be right. thats what i am. i agree that russias "communism" and the nazi's "socialism" were just names they applied to their political economy for their own agendas. these words hardly mean anything nowadays because their definitions have been so badly skewed by the above mentioned and the american propaganda. [/QUOTE]
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