menotyou
bella amicizia
And, he used the word hence! Bonus!
RTW passes in Michigan
- Thread starter ftballer67
- Start date
AZBrown
Teamster by choice
I think it all depends on what management you get.
In my metro area, there are 5 centers. One is notorious for being hell on earth, the other one is really decent to be at (where I work), and I can't speak for the other three.
UPS does not control the pension in the 11 western states
And that's why UPS is known for "writing the book" on part time jobs.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
All RTW does is attempt to defund the Union.
Part-timers problem is not that they are under-represented, it's that they aren't active enough. I reject the argument that part-timers pay more dues because the math doesn't work. Even if there are twice as many part-timers, most don't reach the threshold to pay 2.5x their hourly pay as full timers do. Most friend/T in my State are at top rate, $32.39 for Feeder and I think it's $.68 less for Drivers. That's $81/mo vs. $22/mo for an average p/t making $11/hr.
Every Contract has had improvements for part timers, but what they seem to forget is that part time work at UPS is a relatively new phenomenon in our 100 year + existence. We didn't earn all our excellent friend/t language overnight nor has every contract solved problems without creating more.
RTW doesn't create a better relationship between management and hourlies, in fact quite the opposite. Management feels free to exploit the weakness shown in our lack of Solidarity and only has to put up with minor shows of strength until things get really bad. P/T has the worst Union penetration and so the most problems (ironically blamed on the Union, as if RTW somehow makes it easier for us to force them to participate or gains us any leverage against the Company). It's only when you get into the Driver ranks where participation will rise to anything close to 50% and by the time they make it to Feeder it's at 90% or better (and so consequently, the best relationship between management & BU is in Feeders).
I've come to realize that the weak & those lacking in strong moral conviction will use any excuse to leave the Union regardless of RTW or not. The term "bottom feeders" is aptly deserved.
Part-timers problem is not that they are under-represented, it's that they aren't active enough. I reject the argument that part-timers pay more dues because the math doesn't work. Even if there are twice as many part-timers, most don't reach the threshold to pay 2.5x their hourly pay as full timers do. Most friend/T in my State are at top rate, $32.39 for Feeder and I think it's $.68 less for Drivers. That's $81/mo vs. $22/mo for an average p/t making $11/hr.
Every Contract has had improvements for part timers, but what they seem to forget is that part time work at UPS is a relatively new phenomenon in our 100 year + existence. We didn't earn all our excellent friend/t language overnight nor has every contract solved problems without creating more.
RTW doesn't create a better relationship between management and hourlies, in fact quite the opposite. Management feels free to exploit the weakness shown in our lack of Solidarity and only has to put up with minor shows of strength until things get really bad. P/T has the worst Union penetration and so the most problems (ironically blamed on the Union, as if RTW somehow makes it easier for us to force them to participate or gains us any leverage against the Company). It's only when you get into the Driver ranks where participation will rise to anything close to 50% and by the time they make it to Feeder it's at 90% or better (and so consequently, the best relationship between management & BU is in Feeders).
I've come to realize that the weak & those lacking in strong moral conviction will use any excuse to leave the Union regardless of RTW or not. The term "bottom feeders" is aptly deserved.
Brownslave688
You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
I don't have a problem with the idea of RTW. What I do have a problem with is that employee still getting union representation for discipline hearings and such.
Im not sure about other facilities, but management has a union steward present during disciplinary hearings for all hourly employees.. If further union representation is asked for, the union has the right to demand financial compensation from non-members. Look at it this way - by actually showing a non-member what a knowledgeable steward can do - it might entice the non-member to sign up.
Some posters here keep saying that the PTers have to become more active. Agreed, but the union should do the same. It wouldn't hurt the BAs to visit the sorts and talk to the people during the breaks. A simple introduction and a hand-shake would go a long way.
brown_trousers
Well-Known Member
Good Point. The freedom to choose union membership (or not) is a good thing. The only problem is that the current laws force the union to represent union and non-union workers the same.
The easy fix to the whole RTW situation, is to still give workers the liberty to choose non-union, but cut them off from union support. So they have to negotiate their own wages, benefits, and job security.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The easy solution would be for the union to install a credit card machine just outside of the center manager's office. Members who have opted out of the union who request representation would have to swipe their credit card and pay the representation fee. Think of it as pay per view.
ftballer67
Well-Known Member
Most part timers in my building are paying 2 1/2 times the hourly rate for dues. You must have really high turnover.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Perhaps you should apply some logic and thought to this proposal.
The company would accept this immediately.
LOL
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
Just where did this right to demand financial compensation come from?
As far as the BA's becoming more active, I think you have made the usual error of having the cart before the horse. WE are the Union, not the BA's. BA's represent more than one Company and can't be everywhere at once. Your best deal should be at the local level with the Steward, as the Steward should know what his or her barn wants. Relying on the BA's is like expecting every small claims suit to end up in Federal court. A good BA demands that the Company respect and negotiate with the Stewards. The true power resides in acting collectively, both within the Union and toward the Company. That is where the Part Timers fail and Full Timers could do a lot better.
As far as selling the Union, a simple perusing of our Contract should do that.
Macbrother
Well-Known Member
Yes, zero benefits of any kind for the first year, $8.50 starting at most places followed by zero wage progression; with the prospect of driving seeming farther and father away as UPS hires fewer new drivers I'm sure most part-timers are overjoyed and blown away by such a contract.
Of course you are going to struggle getting new PT'ers to join the union in RTW states.
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
It's pretty rare that a Company offers benefits anywhere near ours for part time work. Part timers caused that by having atrocious turnover rates (over 60% in AZ even when we had full benefits after 30 days). I guess they must have been blown away as you didn't see P/Ters vote down the last Contract.
Also I would point to a full pension contribution after 90 days.
The progression for new hires is:
| Sorter/ Preloader | All Others | |
| Start | $9.50 | $8.50 |
| +90 calendar days | $10.50 | $9.50 |
| Seniority + 1 year | $11.00 | $10.00 |
| Seniority + 2 years | $11.50 | $10.50 |
| Seniority + 3 years | $12.00 | $11.00 |
| Seniority + 4 years | $12.87 | $11.87 |
so how is that zero? Also, we increased the ratio of P/T vs. outside hires into driving yet again, virtually guaranteeing that opportunity to P/T instead of Supervisors or off-the-street hires (and they don't even make management have any driving time anymore). The economy tanking is not the Union's fault.
But I seriously don't know how you sell this to any UPS driver: "Guys, I know the Company is offering us a huge bump in our WCT pension payments ($9.60/hr in 2012) and $3.70 over the life of the Contract pushing our wages past $32/hr, plus maintaining our H&W and agreeing to pay Triple Time(!) for Over 9.5's, but we really should strike for the part time employees that don't work here yet and may never work here. What do you say Brothers!"
Catatonic
Nine Lives
That's because the funds provided for P/T employees which they rarely use, is used by the Teamsters to subsidize friend/T Health benefits.
Macbrother
Well-Known Member
Wanna take a gander as to why your turnover rate was as high as it was? Now, what was your driver turnover rate during the same period? I'm sure there's a correlation somewhere...
Thank you for making my point. No, of course it isn't zero, but it's absolutely pathetic given the work we do compared to FT wage progression.
You raised the outside/inside ratio? That helps a lot, given many places haven't hired a new driver in over five years.
Brownslave688
You want a toe? I can get you a toe.
Just curious what do u think would be a fair progression?
104Feeder
Phoenix Feeder
If there is one thing you should have learned at UPS is that it pays off for the long haul not the short term. The goal is to reduce the number of part timers period by moving them into friend/T jobs whether they are combo or Driving. Then that will make the part time progress all but moot. I was paid slightly less than that progression when I was part time so I don't see what the problem is. I did the same work you are doing. I might point out that the pace was quite a bit higher then as we didn't have to scan anything. We loaded trailers almost twice as fast as they do now.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
I hope no UPS union members were involved in the heinous acts seen in the video linked below.
UNIONS ASSAULT ON CAMERA!! - YouTube
UNIONS ASSAULT ON CAMERA!! - YouTube
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