so did obama just screw our 2013 contract? (health care)

[JonFrum]

If we will never have to pay a tax on beni's then what is the purpose of reporting it on a W2?

Preparing us, softening us up, for when the other shoe drops.

Obama is a true Socialist. He thinks his understanding of the world is so natural and obvious and good, that all right-thinking people think that way. He believes he is on the side of the angels.

He would probably be mildly offended and amused if anyone actually called him a Socialist, because he thinks Socialism is normal, and therefore doesn't need a name like "Socialism" to describe it. It's just normal common sense. No need for an "ism".

Obama has big, big plans for the USA. But he realizes he'll have to make progress where he can, gradually. So as not to overly alarm the inhabitants.

 

[SWORDFISH]

Heres my new bill proposal. We start w/ the free handouts. First of all if your getting them and your an able bodied person you have to do some type of work to earn them(pick up trash, cover up graffiti or hold road signs, etc.). Next if your getting free stuff its only redeemable for necessities only. Example you can only buy fruits, vegetables, and meat. No twinkies, cigarettes or pizza. No big screen tvs, vcrs, fanacy cars or fastfood. Now those same people in alot of cases but not all are also costing us alot of money in health care but w/ their new diets they will be healthy and ready to join the rest of society. Thats a start to my reform bill. Anyone want to vote me in and Obamaism out.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Heres my new bill proposal. We start w/ the free handouts. First of all if your getting them and your an able bodied person you have to do some type of work to earn them(pick up trash, cover up graffiti or hold road signs, etc.). Next if your getting free stuff its only redeemable for necessities only. Example you can only buy fruits, vegetables, and meat. No twinkies, cigarettes or pizza. No big screen tvs, vcrs, fanacy cars or fastfood. Now those same people in alot of cases but not all are also costing us alot of money in health care but w/ their new diets they will be healthy and ready to join the rest of society. Thats a start to my reform bill. Anyone want to vote me in and Obamaism out.

Will be running on the Common Sense platform?

 

[Catatonic]

If we will never have to pay a tax on beni's then what is the purpose of reporting it on a W2?

Sort of like the census ... information is power.
And some people will have to pay ... at some point in time.

 

[toonertoo]

Heres my new bill proposal. We start w/ the free handouts. First of all if your getting them and your an able bodied person you have to do some type of work to earn them(pick up trash, cover up graffiti or hold road signs, etc.). Next if your getting free stuff its only redeemable for necessities only. Example you can only buy fruits, vegetables, and meat. No twinkies, cigarettes or pizza. No big screen tvs, vcrs, fanacy cars or fastfood. Now those same people in alot of cases but not all are also costing us alot of money in health care but w/ their new diets they will be healthy and ready to join the rest of society. Thats a start to my reform bill. Anyone want to vote me in and Obamaism out.

Yes I will vote for you, where will your campaign headquarters be.
Add this to the platform. All ID must state if you are on assistance, Disability, Unemployment, SS, do not count. Or any programs you actually paid into. Only Welfare. Just a little SA in the upper left hand corner. And ID must be shown to buy lotto, cigs, alcohol. In the food stamp stipend, only 5% of that card will be allowed for junk food. Since big brother is alive and well anyway, why not use some common sense.
Children who drop out of school, become ineligible. GED programs for everyone else who is on assistance, that did not finish high school. With counselors in place to get them into a trade, vocational school or college, once they complete high school equivalency . If this is the case where they know nothing else of life, but a handout, we need to get them out and see there is a better way. Sometimes they do not know. This would increase the need for teachers, and mentors.

 

[Lue C Fur]

Heres my new bill proposal. We start w/ the free handouts. First of all if your getting them and your an able bodied person you have to do some type of work to earn them(pick up trash, cover up graffiti or hold road signs, etc.). Next if your getting free stuff its only redeemable for necessities only. Example you can only buy fruits, vegetables, and meat. No twinkies, cigarettes or pizza. No big screen tvs, vcrs, fanacy cars or fastfood. Now those same people in alot of cases but not all are also costing us alot of money in health care but w/ their new diets they will be healthy and ready to join the rest of society. Thats a start to my reform bill. Anyone want to vote me in and Obamaism out.

You got my vote and use some of Toonertoo's ideas also.

 

[soberups]

I am a big fan of intellectual honesty.

I understand why people disagree with the concept of socialized medicine; however, these people are free to disagree while at the same time being secure in the knowledge that if they ever show up at an emergency room with no money and a life-threatening condition, they will get treated and someone else will pay for it.

If you disagree with the idea of socialized medicine that's fine; but if you do not want to be a part of a socialized plan then you should be required to sign a form that states that you will pay cash up front for all medical treatment and if you cannot pay then treatment will be denied and you will be allowed to die.

Otherwise...you are a dishonest hypocrite. Cant have it both ways.

I'm not smart enough to wrap my head around all the details of the bill that was just signed. All I do know is that what we had before wasnt working. What we had before was socialized medicine....with emergency rooms as the grossly expensive and inefficient providers of last resort. Those of us who do have money or insurance have been paying the bill for those of us who dont, whether we realize it or not...which is the very definition of "socialized medicine".

 

[toonertoo]

I am a big fan of intellectual honesty.

I'm not smart enough to wrap my head around all the details of the bill that was just signed. All I do know is that what we had before wasnt working. What we had before was socialized medicine....with emergency rooms as the grossly expensive and inefficient providers of last resort. Those of us who do have money or insurance have been paying the bill for those of us who dont, whether we realize it or not...which is the very definition of "socialized medicine".

Im not smart enough either, maybe thats why it shouldnt be 3000 pages, as the people we elected are not smarter than us. Ive been to the hospital and signed my name and paid the bill. No one denied me care because I didnt have cash. There is nothing wrong with having a medical bill, it will be far less than your cell, tv, phone bill, but its ok to have those? Usually with no interest or taxes, and any amount you can afford, up to and including a sliding scale based on wages. But those are luxuries and we can pay for them but have trouble understanding we may have to pay for our own health?
we/they should not have voted in a bill, that we had to pass before we know whats in it. Just silly. Those people all need to join the lines of the unemployed in November, on both sides. They have been there too long.

 

[bscott85]

Well, just watching CNN with all ther questions and answers about the new Healthcare Reform Bill.
Not good news for you UPS employees.

The money that UPS, (or any other employer), pays for your healthcare will now be calculated as taxable income.
That means, if you made $60.000 gross last year, your gross income will go up, by the equal amount UPS paid for your healthcare (lets say $7000).
Therefor your gross income is $67.000, which ofcourse you pay taxes on.

Basically, look out for smaller paychecks. I would assume about $50 less per week, if your average is $60K/yr.

And it will hit the part-timers even worse, I assume. Since , the addtional gross income, would make a big dent.

this is precisely why i was against the bill, they've figured out a way to raise taxes on people who may only make like 15K a year

 

[bscott85]

If we will never have to pay a tax on beni's then what is the purpose of reporting it on a W2?

we do start paying taxes on our benefits in 2018, if they are over a certain amount:

"In 2018:
• Imposes an excise tax on high-cost health plans, defined as those providing coverage in excess of $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families."

 

[blue efficacy]

I for one think it's fair that I pay taxes on the wonderful care I enjoy as a UPSer that the majority of Americans do not enjoy, even being a lowly Part Time worker.

Bring on the socialism! Healthcare should be a right not a privilege. No one should be forced into bankruptcy because they couldn't afford their lifesaving treatment. When will America get in line with the rest of the civilized world?

 

[1989]

I for one think it's fair that I pay taxes on the wonderful care I enjoy as a UPSer that the majority of Americans do not enjoy, even being a lowly Part Time worker.

Bring on the socialism! Healthcare should be a right not a privilege. No one should be forced into bankruptcy because they couldn't afford their lifesaving treatment. When will America get in line with the rest of the civilized world?

Even with health insurance, many Americans are forced into bankruptcy because of life saving treatment.

 

[tieguy]

I am a big fan of intellectual honesty.

I understand why people disagree with the concept of socialized medicine; however, these people are free to disagree while at the same time being secure in the knowledge that if they ever show up at an emergency room with no money and a life-threatening condition, they will get treated and someone else will pay for it.

If you disagree with the idea of socialized medicine that's fine; but if you do not want to be a part of a socialized plan then you should be required to sign a form that states that you will pay cash up front for all medical treatment and if you cannot pay then treatment will be denied and you will be allowed to die.

Otherwise...you are a dishonest hypocrite. Cant have it both ways.

I'm not smart enough to wrap my head around all the details of the bill that was just signed. All I do know is that what we had before wasnt working. What we had before was socialized medicine....with emergency rooms as the grossly expensive and inefficient providers of last resort. Those of us who do have money or insurance have been paying the bill for those of us who dont, whether we realize it or not...which is the very definition of "socialized medicine".

For me this issue is actually beyond socialism

I'm still going throught this massive bill as details start coming forth.

I'm still trying to figure out what we supposedly fixed with this monster.

Did we find a way to give poor people health benifits. We did if they have the 400 dollars a month or more to put up until they can claim their tax subsidies at the end of the year.

Tell you what sober turn the same fanatically critical eye towards the details of this bill that you do towards ups and see what you discover.

 

[klein]

For me this issue is actually beyond socialism

I'm still going throught this massive bill as details start coming forth.

I'm still trying to figure out what we supposedly fixed with this monster.

Did we find a way to give poor people health benifits. We did if they have the 400 dollars a month or more to put up until they can claim their tax subsidies at the end of the year.

Tell you what sober turn the same fanatically critical eye towards the details of this bill that you do towards ups and see what you discover.

soberups: Otherwise...you are a dishonest hypocrite. Cant have it both ways.

Speaking of one. What is it Tie ? First you didn't want healthcare for the poor at all, and now you are worried about them ?
And as far as I know, the poor will get subsidized insurance, starting at zero dollars, to a few hundred (self constribution, and according to income). The poor will never pay full rates, if any at all.

 

[JonFrum]

Heres my new bill proposal. We start w/ the free handouts. First of all if your getting them and your an able bodied person you have to do some type of work to earn them(pick up trash, cover up graffiti or hold road signs, etc.). Next if your getting free stuff its only redeemable for necessities only. Example you can only buy fruits, vegetables, and meat. No twinkies, cigarettes or pizza. No big screen tvs, vcrs, fanacy cars or fastfood. Now those same people in alot of cases but not all are also costing us alot of money in health care but w/ their new diets they will be healthy and ready to join the rest of society. Thats a start to my reform bill. Anyone want to vote me in and Obamaism out.

I agree with your sentiment. But be careful. Taxpayers were fooled before when Food Stamps were offered on the condition that they not be spent on non-essentials. So the clever recipients just bought the essentials with their Food Stamps, and then, with their other money that was now freed-up, they bought the luxuries (and sometimes illegal stuff.) You see, poor people do have money, it's either they don't have enough of it, or it's from illegal sources so the government doesn't count it. Giving them free money, with restrictions, just frees them up to spend their other money on whatever they want.

Even legitimate Food Stamp recipients go through the checkout counter and split their order into two sections. They pay for one with Food Stamps, and the other with regular money.

 

[blue efficacy]

Even with health insurance, many Americans are forced into bankruptcy because of life saving treatment.

This is usually due to coverage being inadequate, or nefarious actions on the insurance company's part.

Note that I am in favor of socialized medicine, where such medical bankruptcy would not happen, period.

 

[JonFrum]

This is usually due to coverage being inadequate, or nefarious actions on the insurance company's part.

Note that I am in favor of socialized medicine, where such medical bankruptcy would not happen, period.

That's good to know.

And here I was believing that Socialism always leads eventually to national bankruptcy if you're lucky, and to some form of Totalitarianism if you're not so lucky.

 

[blue efficacy]

That's good to know.

And here I was believing that Socialism always leads eventually to national bankruptcy if you're lucky, and to some form of Totalitarianism if you're not so lucky.

Western Europe and Canada seemed to be surviving just fine last I checked. People need to get out of this 1950s era line of thinking where socialism=totalitarian communist USSR=BAD.

 

[Lue C Fur]

Western Europe and Canada seemed to be surviving just fine last I checked. People need to get out of this 1950s era line of thinking where socialism=totalitarian communist USSR=BAD.

Sure they are "surviving just fine" but have you seen the taxes they pay. So i guess as long as you dont mind being a slave and paying much of your earnings to the govt then...

 

[klein]

Sure they are "surviving just fine" but have you seen the taxes they pay. So i guess as long as you dont mind being a slave and paying much of your earnings to the govt then...

I don't think our taxes are that high, considering what we get in return (healthcare, pension and other bennies).
Here is a break down of 1 of my older UPS checks:

990.72 Gross pay.
minus EI (employment insurance) $17.14
minus CPP (Can. Pension Plan) $45.71
minus income tax $177.81

total deductions : $240.66

Net pay : $750.06

And remember our government pension is higher then yours, so is our Unemployment benefits.
And we never need to worry about Healthcare cost ever. Being unemployed or early retirement, or just taking time off.