The Darkside of the American Empire

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by wkmac, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Spreading Freedom, Liberty and Democracy to others

    And we have to ask why they would hate us?
     
  2. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    What does this article have to do with freedom, liberty and democracy? I'm sure the people of Guatemala that hate us have thier reasons, however I question if these obvious unethical studies have a thing to do with any of those reasons.

    Other than that, I doubt any of the people that had direct or even indirect authority in the studies the article is about are even living today (63 years later).
     
  3. UpstateNYUPSer

    UpstateNYUPSer Very proud grandfather.

  4. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    Two terrible responses with ignorance to history.
     
  5. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Well, why don't you explain it to us.
     
  6. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    God helps those whom help themselves.
     
  7. moreluck

    moreluck golden ticket member

    The phrase "God helps those WHO help themselves" is a popular motto which emphasizes the importance of self-initiative.

    Using "whom" doesn't make you more intelligent unless you use it right.
     
  8. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

  9. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Just what I thought, you got nothing.
    You're insinuating you're superior in history knowledge on this subject, prove it.
     
  10. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    The history of Guatemala, especially mid to late 20th century is very telling. Knowing a little of that history would help explain the "Spreading Freedom, Liberty and Democracy to others" comment and it happens to be a direct takeoff to Richard Nixon's comments in 1954' after the democratically elected Jacobo Arbenz Guzman was overthrown in a CIA led Coup and a military junta was installed into power.

    Below is a just under 5 minute micro view of the events and some film of Nixon's comments are also seen. Another important point to consider are the comments of infamous CIA man E. Howard Hunt who was the CIA pointman in the Guatemala operation. How Hunt speaks of terrorism, a word in our present day with special implications, I would hope would cause pause to think.

    [video=youtube;TQ-E--rmi3k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ-E--rmi3k[/video]

    A side historical interest is how the infamous Edward Bernays was used in this entire effort. In fact, what we see today in the Middle East is nothing more than a picture of Central America circa mid-20th century. Yes, even Central America had it's villians such as we see and hear today and like then, the legacy of Bernay's lives on!
     
  11. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler


    "What does this article have to do with freedom, liberty and democracy? I'm sure the people of Guatemala that hate us have thier reasons, however I question if these obvious unethical studies have a thing to do with any of those reasons.

    Other than that, I doubt any of the people that had direct or even indirect authority in the studies the article is about are even living today (63 years later)."

    I am not here to teach, however I am open to agreement, discussion or dissention. wkmac apparently already helped you along, so care to elaborate now that you actually know something about the topic?.
     
  12. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    U.S. went bananas for oil, so to speak? ;D That was aimed more at your comment about the middle east.
     
  13. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    I find that very interesting but doesn't explain how it fits into the original article you posted. From that article the only connection to the US government was grants given to the researchers, something that our government has done for generations. Now if you are implying that the research was the front work before the "Banana Republic" stuff mentioned in the video that is another thing altogether. Long story short, neither the video or the article mention any connection of the two events.
     
  14. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    And let's just ignore what was also taking place on the homefront in the name of nation security and fighting the red menace or "In the name of freedom, liberty and democracy." And let's not even speak of Shirō Ishii, Unit 731 and Ft. Derrick. And by all means never, ever look into Operation Paperclip.

    [video=youtube;i46RI2twVao]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i46RI2twVao[/video]
     
  15. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    Yep. Interesting with all the fear of radical islamic forces gaining power of nationstates and yet in the case of Iraq, now Libya and it appears Syria in the future being overthrown, these were still secular states. I can understand the point of these are not the nicest of people but they're not radical islam either which according to the script is far worse.
     
  16. Sleeve_meet_Heart

    Sleeve_meet_Heart making the unreadable unreadabler

    They are not truly secular states, however I agree typically not radically islam.
     
  17. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    True but many say America is secular but we really aren't. Let an atheist stand up, even run for public office and see how fast they get shouted down. Our society stills wants a religious connection to a great sky god and even our own christian fundamentalism can play well come election time. But we do seem for the moment to tolerate other religions and thus my point in some of these middle eastern states. They did tolerate "some" other faiths, mostly christian varieties but in the case of Libya, some greek orthodox churches in the fall of the Qaddafi regime were ransacked and damaged. This was not allowed under Qaddafi and even Saddam had christians in positions of power.

    Even radical Iran as of just a couple of years ago had a jew elected to it's Parliament representing an Iranian jewish community. Until Zionism and fundamentalist Islam began their death dance, Iran had the largest and most viable jewish community in the Middle East and if you understand your Persian history and Cyrus the Great, you'll know why. Even the old testament in the hebrew called Cyrus "the annointed" which is where we get the greek "christos" or messiah! Yep, the old testament calls the great Persian king Cyrus, a messiah! But then there have been many messiahs if you read the good book!
    :wink2:

    In that sense I call it secular but yes in the truer sense of the word, not even America IMO is truly secular.
     
  18. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Israel has had at least two Prime Ministers that were atheists.
     
  19. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member

    So while the world looked upon Gaddafi as pure evil, our own gov't via the CIA was playing footsie under the table.

    Would we have worked with Hitler had it meant in doing so would make our country safe?
     
  20. wkmac

    wkmac Well-Known Member